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Fickle fans are quick to embrace local sports figures, and even quicker to spurn them Five local sports figures that find themselves on the wrong side of public opinion, and wrongly. OCTOBER 6, 2017 — 9:30PM
The passion for sports in this area has been questioned occasionally through the decades, including by me. You see 10,000 empty seats in a smallish Big Ten football stadium for a new coach’s conference opener and that idea can be reinforced.
One of the main fascinations in covering sports here has been to watch as fans make their decisions on important figures — sometimes without wavering, other times changing with the wind.
Here’s a handful of sports figures who seem to find themselves currently on the wrong side of public opinion:
Rick Spielman: The Vikings general manager has had full authority to bring in personnel since 2011, one year before getting the GM title. Fans still like to throw Christian Ponder at Spielman from that draft, even though the statute of limitations has expired.
There have been other misses for Spielman, but in truth, he has accumulated a defense with seven stars on it, and the offensive limitations can be traced more to injuries than draft failures.
One accusation is Spielman surrendered too much to bring in Sam Bradford from Philadelphia after Teddy Bridgewater’s injury. That’s as preposterous as the ongoing suggestion that the Twins should not have given a huge contract to reigning MVP Joe Mauer, a couple of weeks before they moved into a new ballpark in 2010.
The 2016 Vikings were coming off an 11-5 season, they had the potential to repeat as NFC Central champs, and a competent quarterback was a must to make that happen.
Anybody questioning the Bradford trade when they started 5-0?
Spielman did what he had to do to give the Vikings a shot. There were injuries, yes, and also a coach in Mike Zimmer who got far from the best out of his roster down the stretch.
There’s no good reason for Spielman to be in trouble, other than the possibility the rumors are true that he’s not a favorite of team President Kevin Warren.
Zach Parise:
Andrew Wiggins:
Derek Falvey:
Don Lucia:
http://www.startribune.com/fickle-fans-a...449841743/
Since 2011... Vikings QB situation...
Donovan "worm burner" McNabb, Ponder, Webb,
2012 - Ponder, Webb.
2013 - Cassel, Ponder and brings in Josh "can't hit the broad side of a barn" Freeman to "improve" the situation.
2014 - Bridgewater(after Norv pounded the table for the guy) Cassel, and Ponder.
2015 - Bridgewater, (over the) Hill.
2016 - Bradford (traded first round pick 2017 and a 4th round 2018), (over the) Hill (still).
2017 - Bradford, Keenum(finally a backup that's worth something).
Some would say Spielman can't evaluate QB talent. Something that is needed in a GM today's NFL. Instead he relies on his coaches/coordinators. Without Norv, I doubt Teddy is a Viking. And since Norv blew a gasket and walked... I'm guessing that Shurmur had a hand in Bradford's signing. It was a battle of OCs (present and former) about how to use the newly acquired "toy"...
And QB is only one position.
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
Since 2011... Vikings QB situation...
Donovan "worm burner" McNabb, Ponder, Webb,
2012 - Ponder, Webb.
2013 - Cassel, Ponder and brings in Josh "can't hit the broad side of a barn" Freeman to "improve" the situation.
2014 - Bridgewater(after Norv pounded the table for the guy) Cassel, and Ponder.
2015 - Bridgewater, (over the) Hill.
2016 - Bradford (traded first round pick 2017 and a 4th round 2018), (over the) Hill (still).
2017 - Bradford, Keenum(finally a backup that's worth something).
Some would say Spielman can't evaluate QB talent. Something that is needed in a GM today's NFL. Instead he relies on his coaches/coordinators. Without Norv, I doubt Teddy is a Viking. And since Norv blew a gasket and walked... I'm guessing that Shurmur had a hand in Bradford's signing. It was a battle of OCs (present and former) about how to use the newly acquired "toy"...
And QB is only one position.
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
This is the first I heard whispers of "Kevin Warren not a fan of Zimmer"
Anyone else hear this already?
Not sure I'd want to be on the wrong side of Warren. I think he's accumulated a lot of power under the Wilfs. Ask AP.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
Since 2011... Vikings QB situation...
Donovan "worm burner" McNabb, Ponder, Webb,
2012 - Ponder, Webb.
2013 - Cassel, Ponder and brings in Josh "can't hit the broad side of a barn" Freeman to "improve" the situation.
2014 - Bridgewater(after Norv pounded the table for the guy) Cassel, and Ponder.
2015 - Bridgewater, (over the) Hill.
2016 - Bradford (traded first round pick 2017 and a 4th round 2018), (over the) Hill (still).
2017 - Bradford, Keenum(finally a backup that's worth something).
Some would say Spielman can't evaluate QB talent. Something that is needed in a GM today's NFL. Instead he relies on his coaches/coordinators. Without Norv, I doubt Teddy is a Viking. And since Norv blew a gasket and walked... I'm guessing that Shurmur had a hand in Bradford's signing. It was a battle of OCs (present and former) about how to use the newly acquired "toy"...
And QB is only one position.
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
LOL! McNabb was Chilly's fault, huh?
Chilly was fired midway thru the 2010 season. Vikings worked out a deal with Washington in the summer of 2011 for McNabb. You didnt even bother checking for accuracy, you just immediately kicked into "defend Ricky" mode.
And you got the "feeling" Spielman didn't want Less? Well, I guess that makes it a fact then! We'll ignore his numerous public comments applauding and supporting Less.
The excuses for Richard have now reached comical levels.....blaming an ex-coach who was no longer part of the team for a failed personnel move. Classic.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
The Norv situation was a head scratcher at the time and still is. Leaving a 5-0 team for me says the feeling of being unappreciated and possibly odd man out. Not spending money on the lineman could also factor into that, but I think losing "his guy" in Teddy and Shurmur working with Bradford to get him up to speed with "all things Viking" could have magnified any small doubts Norv had. Walking away from a winning situation that he helped build tells me he felt "professionally attacked/ignored" he might have overreacted to some "writing on the wall" that really wasn't there, or perhaps was in a small way. Zimmer seemed "shocked" by the move which told me he thought "all was good" with his relationship with Norv.
2011 was the year listed in the article as Speilman's complete control over personnel, that's why McNabb is listed. People like to say all the struggles we had prior is not his fault as there were "others" who also had a say... well, there gone as of 2011 and things really haven't improved... have they? Now if you had a team of 3 working for you and one member constantly came to you and said, hey these guys are holding me back, get rid of them,... give me the keys and I'll do great things for you. But six years after you placed this guy in charge, he still hasn't produced great things,,, some mediocre results overall but nothing close to where "the team" took your business,... perhaps the issue wasn't those two other people after all. This is not me saying the TOA was a good thing.... just me saying that Spielman isn't an improvement over it. He struggled in Miami and he is struggling here. But the season is young, and Bradford can make the throws, he is a franchise QB... IF he can stay on the field. I hope he does and takes this team into the playoffs and then the Super Bowl. For me it's about the only way Rick can keep his job.
Quote: @njvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
Since 2011... Vikings QB situation...
Donovan "worm burner" McNabb, Ponder, Webb,
2012 - Ponder, Webb.
2013 - Cassel, Ponder and brings in Josh "can't hit the broad side of a barn" Freeman to "improve" the situation.
2014 - Bridgewater(after Norv pounded the table for the guy) Cassel, and Ponder.
2015 - Bridgewater, (over the) Hill.
2016 - Bradford (traded first round pick 2017 and a 4th round 2018), (over the) Hill (still).
2017 - Bradford, Keenum(finally a backup that's worth something).
Some would say Spielman can't evaluate QB talent. Something that is needed in a GM today's NFL. Instead he relies on his coaches/coordinators. Without Norv, I doubt Teddy is a Viking. And since Norv blew a gasket and walked... I'm guessing that Shurmur had a hand in Bradford's signing. It was a battle of OCs (present and former) about how to use the newly acquired "toy"...
And QB is only one position.
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
LOL! McNabb was Chilly's fault, huh?
Chilly was fired midway thru the 2010 season. Vikings worked out a deal with Washington in the summer of 2011 for McNabb. You didnt even bother checking for accuracy, you just immediately kicked into "defend Ricky" mode.
And you got the "feeling" Spielman didn't want Less? Well, I guess that makes it a fact then! We'll ignore his numerous public comments applauding and supporting Less.
The excuses for Richard have now reached comical levels.....blaming an ex-coach who was no longer part of the team for a failed personnel move. Classic.
yep your are right, i mis-remembered, but mine isnt agenda driven, unlike your blathering.
and if you dont want to read about my opinion then i suggest you put me and my opinions on ignore, or shut the fuck up with your sarcastic shit.
once again, nobody here appreciates your posts, why dont you go find some other place to spread your shit? seriously... get the fuck out of here you fucking troll. its assholes like you that destroy places like this so get the fuck out you unwelcome asswipe.
Greed or whoever... go ahead and ban/suspend me, what ever you want. I am so fucking sick of bit posting trolls that do nothing to contribute to this board but show up when things are rosy and shit all over. There are plenty of posters that I disagree with a lot, but this fucker takes the cake when it comes to being a waste of a membership.
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
The Norv situation was a head scratcher at the time and still is. Leaving a 5-0 team for me says the feeling of being unappreciated and possibly odd man out. Not spending money on the lineman could also factor into that, but I think losing "his guy" in Teddy and Shurmur working with Bradford to get him up to speed with "all things Viking" could have magnified any small doubts Norv had. Walking away from a winning situation that he helped build tells me he felt "professionally attacked/ignored" he might have overreacted to some "writing on the wall" that really wasn't there, or perhaps was in a small way. Zimmer seemed "shocked" by the move which told me he thought "all was good" with his relationship with Norv.
2011 was the year listed in the article as Speilman's complete control over personnel, that's why McNabb is listed. People like to say all the struggles we had prior is not his fault as there were "others" who also had a say... well, there gone as of 2011 and things really haven't improved... have they? Now if you had a team of 3 working for you and one member constantly came to you and said, hey these guys are holding me back, get rid of them,... give me the keys and I'll do great things for you. But six years after you placed this guy in charge, he still hasn't produced great things,,, some mediocre results overall but nothing close to where "the team" took your business,... perhaps the issue wasn't those two other people after all. This is not me saying the TOA was a good thing.... just me saying that Spielman isn't an improvement over it. He struggled in Miami and he is struggling here. But the season is young, and Bradford can make the throws, he is a franchise QB... IF he can stay on the field. I hope he does and takes this team into the playoffs and then the Super Bowl. For me it's about the only way Rick can keep his job.
yep, as I noted in the other post, i was thinking that mcnabb was chillys last year, but I was wrong.
I still contend that the team is improving under Rick and Zim, even if it doesnt show in the standings, nobody can say the team isnt better now than it was 3 years ago, and seemingly improving every year. seriously bro, what position is weaker now than it was 3 years ago? across the board I think we are improved and the best part is we are doing it with younger guys, not a bunch of 30 somethings that are on the doorstep of retirement.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
The Norv situation was a head scratcher at the time and still is. Leaving a 5-0 team for me says the feeling of being unappreciated and possibly odd man out. Not spending money on the lineman could also factor into that, but I think losing "his guy" in Teddy and Shurmur working with Bradford to get him up to speed with "all things Viking" could have magnified any small doubts Norv had. Walking away from a winning situation that he helped build tells me he felt "professionally attacked/ignored" he might have overreacted to some "writing on the wall" that really wasn't there, or perhaps was in a small way. Zimmer seemed "shocked" by the move which told me he thought "all was good" with his relationship with Norv.
2011 was the year listed in the article as Speilman's complete control over personnel, that's why McNabb is listed. People like to say all the struggles we had prior is not his fault as there were "others" who also had a say... well, there gone as of 2011 and things really haven't improved... have they? Now if you had a team of 3 working for you and one member constantly came to you and said, hey these guys are holding me back, get rid of them,... give me the keys and I'll do great things for you. But six years after you placed this guy in charge, he still hasn't produced great things,,, some mediocre results overall but nothing close to where "the team" took your business,... perhaps the issue wasn't those two other people after all. This is not me saying the TOA was a good thing.... just me saying that Spielman isn't an improvement over it. He struggled in Miami and he is struggling here. But the season is young, and Bradford can make the throws, he is a franchise QB... IF he can stay on the field. I hope he does and takes this team into the playoffs and then the Super Bowl. For me it's about the only way Rick can keep his job.
yep, as I noted in the other post, i was thinking that mcnabb was chillys last year, but I was wrong.
I still contend that the team is improving under Rick and Zim, even if it doesnt show in the standings, nobody can say the team isnt better now than it was 3 years ago, and seemingly improving every year. seriously bro, what position is weaker now than it was 3 years ago? across the board I think we are improved and the best part is we are doing it with younger guys, not a bunch of 30 somethings that are on the doorstep of retirement.
I'm not convinced this is as good as 11/5 squad was, not yet.
I'll grant it's still early in the season. We'll see what the running game can do now and what happens with the shit-show @ QB.
That 11/5 team went 5/2 in the Norris too. Next 2 division games are big.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am betting Norv leaving had more to do with the oline situation and the fact that the team wouldn't make any big swings for guys like joe thomas or staley who were rumored to be available but would have hurt the teams cap plan for the future.
As far as QBs....you just supported the story by bringing up mcflabb, he was most certainly a Childress signing. Freeman was likely Spielman but he took a shot and missed in a horrible year with a guy at HC that was basically forced on him IMO. I never got the feeling that spielman wanted les.
He's had his misses just as every GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some want to paint him to be.
Now mauer....Holy shit how is that not a bad contract? It ate historically 20+% of the twins annual payroll on a guy that was only a for average hitter, whose performance never seemed to show up at clutch times and although he was a decent (not great) catcher, it was pretty evident that a position change was in his future.
The Norv situation was a head scratcher at the time and still is. Leaving a 5-0 team for me says the feeling of being unappreciated and possibly odd man out. Not spending money on the lineman could also factor into that, but I think losing "his guy" in Teddy and Shurmur working with Bradford to get him up to speed with "all things Viking" could have magnified any small doubts Norv had. Walking away from a winning situation that he helped build tells me he felt "professionally attacked/ignored" he might have overreacted to some "writing on the wall" that really wasn't there, or perhaps was in a small way. Zimmer seemed "shocked" by the move which told me he thought "all was good" with his relationship with Norv.
2011 was the year listed in the article as Speilman's complete control over personnel, that's why McNabb is listed. People like to say all the struggles we had prior is not his fault as there were "others" who also had a say... well, there gone as of 2011 and things really haven't improved... have they? Now if you had a team of 3 working for you and one member constantly came to you and said, hey these guys are holding me back, get rid of them,... give me the keys and I'll do great things for you. But six years after you placed this guy in charge, he still hasn't produced great things,,, some mediocre results overall but nothing close to where "the team" took your business,... perhaps the issue wasn't those two other people after all. This is not me saying the TOA was a good thing.... just me saying that Spielman isn't an improvement over it. He struggled in Miami and he is struggling here. But the season is young, and Bradford can make the throws, he is a franchise QB... IF he can stay on the field. I hope he does and takes this team into the playoffs and then the Super Bowl. For me it's about the only way Rick can keep his job.
yep, as I noted in the other post, i was thinking that mcnabb was chillys last year, but I was wrong.
I still contend that the team is improving under Rick and Zim, even if it doesnt show in the standings, nobody can say the team isnt better now than it was 3 years ago, and seemingly improving every year. seriously bro, what position is weaker now than it was 3 years ago? across the board I think we are improved and the best part is we are doing it with younger guys, not a bunch of 30 somethings that are on the doorstep of retirement.
I'm not convinced this is as good as 11/5 squad was, not yet.
I'll grant it's still early in the season. We'll see what the running game can do now and what happens with the shit-show @ QB.
That 11/5 team went 5/2 in the Norris too. Next 2 division games are big.
11/5 was a mess at OL, Teddy made a lot of plays with his legs to receivers that arent even close to what we have now, and I will take Cook, Murray, and McKinnon over AD, Asiata, and McKinnon. TE is a wash. Defense has gotten better across all levels as well.
this team is 2 years in a row of losing the starting QB and RB in the first few weeks, and we dont even need to talk about the OL last year.
I will stay with my previous comment, this team is better IMO.
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