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I know there are a lot of Zimmer supporters on this board and I have lightly brought this up after the Norv
scandal and again at the beginning of this year. I think Zimmer is a good defensive coordinator, but when
it comes to in game management, especially on the offensive side of the ball where he is very hands off,
Zimmer led teams continue to come up short time and time again against the better teams in NFL. I think
we get routinely outcoached. I thought today was another example of that on the Offensive side of the ball.
Loosing Cook was a huge part of that since we didn't seem to have any answers once he went out of the game,
but our inability to attack the Lions weakness at LB, not getting our TE's involved in the Passing game until
the last drive when Rudolph finally made some plays is typical of a Shurmur designed gameplan when facing
better defenses. He struggles under the pressure of adversity. This team does not seem mentally tough or
very disciplined when the pressure is on. Tampa Bay was missing 6 starters on defense last week which I know
is a bit of an exaggeration because I'm including the players that were playing hurt. Still, that was not a full
strength defense that Keenum picked apart and we had the luxury of playing with a comfortable lead the entire
game.
I don't see this year ending well for the Vikings or Zimmer/Shurmur/Spielman and I think the coaching staff's
in game management skills will ultimately be their downfall.
I disagree. AT was open for easy touchdowns twice and the backup qb didn't hit him.
The coaches didn't fumble the ball three times.
I still like the O Line. And think either of our starting qbs would do well when they are healthy.
Few missed tackles on D ... and a few mental
mistakes like the Waynes failure to contain the edge.
And our receivers had several obvious interference calls not called ... and obvious holding on our d line.
we got screwed by the refs, our D couldnt catch, had a rough stretch of TOs, and lost our starting RB when we were already playing with our #2 QB... that isnt Zim's fault. is he perfect? no, but the guy has bad luck. how man "no contact" blown knees can 1 guy be forced to deal with!?!?!
To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question.
I guess by the end of this season we will have petty good idea. He has a major QB dilemma to deal with and now has to manufacture a run game to keep the offense going. The team is going to need some leadership from him to buckle up do something.
He has had some real misfortune-call it excuses if you want but they were totally out o his control. Losing starting RB and QB year one, success year two but a missed 27 yard FG ends the season, year three lose QB, RB, and the whole OL not to mention almost his eyesight, now down starting QB and RB again 4 games in.
It's hard to deny they have acquired/developed some talent on this team and he deserves some credit for that. At this point I think he is still a good coach that is having some terrible luck. But then our record with coaches isn't much better than our record with QB's. Bud Grant and Dennis Green are it with nary a SB between 'em.
It's gotta be tough coaching through these injuries. Year after year that's what this staff seems to go through. Other teams like the Pats and our rivals seem to always overcome major setbacks, but that has evolved over time. I think our depth gets better every year, the cupboard was bare pretty much when Zim got here. Things are gonna take time, just don't know if I got enough.
In 52 games under Zimmer, the Vikings have started a running back that wasn't the opening-day starter in 32 games.
Minnesota also has opened 32 games in that span without the first-team quarterback, including each of the past three games.
Kinda hard to blame Zimmer IMO...
Quote: @TBro said:
To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question.
Well of course they are. People didn't agree with you... so it's excuses. Maybe YOU'RE the one making excuses for the players, in order to blame Zim (since that is your pre-conceived bias)?
Teams like the Pats (and the Pukers) suffer their share of injuries, too... but neither of them have lost their starting QB (multiple times). That's the difference between how "other" teams handle injuries vs. the Vikings. When is the last time we had a good starting QB... who started for more than 1 season (without getting hurt)? Culpepper might've been the last one. Favre was good for exactly 1 year... then he sucked. Teddy hasn't played up to #1 QB status (yet?). That's a heckuva lot different than the Pats going one season without Brady... and the Packers going a few games without Favre or Erin.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ TBro said:
To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question.
Well of course they are. People didn't agree with you... so it's excuses. Maybe YOU'RE the one making excuses for the players, in order to blame Zim (since that is your pre-conceived bias)?
Players are not immune to criticism and I'm not making excuses for them. They have to execute what is called and yesterday there were several players who did not execute and that directly contributed to our loss. Honestly, I don't know if Zimmer has what it takes to be an effective leader of this team or not and I don't have a pre-conceived bias so this isn't about anyone "agreeing" with me or some hidden agenda you seem to think I have. I want him to be our coach for a long time and be successful. The focus of my original question was around the in game decision making and playcalling. I have no doubt that Zimmer is a great Leader during practice throughout the week but when this team gets into actual game situations, especially in tightly contested matchups with good teams, we have continually fallen short with headscratching play calls, clock management, etc. Nodak is correct that the rest of this year will be a major test for Zimmer to see if he can be successful with the parts we have remaining. When faced with similar adversity last year, including the Coaching Scandal with Norv, he didn't fare so well and even admitted that he was part of the problem. Hopefully he has learned from that experience. Injuries suck, especially when we have had so many to our Key Star Players, and I don't blame Zimmer for that, but every team has to deal with injuries and figure out a way to still be competitive. If he can rally the troops and find a way to get a win in Chicago next Monday where we have really struggled over the past several years, especially if we are still without Bradford, then the answer to my question will be answered.
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