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More thoughts on the future and McCarthy....
#1
The Purple Persuasion
From @SandoNFL today for @TheAthletic, an unnamed executive gave his thoughts on what the #Vikings may do at QB in 2025…
“McCarthy is their guy,” the exec said. “The talking heads think they are crazy to let Darnold go, but they don’t have the same conviction on McCarthy as the Vikings do.”

I get that sense as well and I think they've been consistent with that message all year. Could that change? I guess anything is possible, but I don't think its probable.
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#2
(12-16-2024, 09:24 AM)StickierBuns Wrote: The Purple Persuasion
From @SandoNFL today for @TheAthletic, an unnamed executive gave his thoughts on what the #Vikings may do at QB in 2025…
“McCarthy is their guy,” the exec said. “The talking heads think they are crazy to let Darnold go, but they don’t have the same conviction on McCarthy as the Vikings do.”

I get that sense as well and I think they've been consistent with that message all year. Could that change? I guess anything is possible, but I don't think its probable.

I still think letting Darnold go get his bag-o-cash and going with a McCarthy/Jones QB room in 2025 (and the stack of cap space that goes with it) is by far the most likely. But with 4 games and the playoffs yet to play out, I'm not putting any bets down.
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#3
(12-16-2024, 09:32 AM)MaroonBells Wrote: I still think letting Darnold go get his bag-o-cash and going with a McCarthy/Jones QB room in 2025 (and the stack of cap space that goes with it) is by far the most likely. But with 4 games and the playoffs yet to play out, I'm not putting any bets down.

Me either.....you just can't completely because of what this could be moving forward. More than likely, in fact probably beyond that, its JJM in 2025 and maybe Jones as the backup. But if Super Sammy pulls back that shirt and we see that big ol' S and he carries this team the next 4 and deep into the playoffs (like NFCC game), I don't know what to think. Can we have that problem, please? Wink 

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#4
You guys are both echoing where I'm at on 12/16...

We gotta wait and see what happens the next 4+ weeks. It should cement what their future QB strategy is - at lease short term.

Even if Darnold does get a 1 or 2 year extension, I still believe JJM is the QBOTF. He just might end-up curating a little longer than we thought back in May/June.

Love and Rogers did pretty good with that tactic.
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#5
(12-16-2024, 10:32 AM)purplefaithful Wrote: You guys are both echoing where I'm at on 12/16...

We gotta wait and see what happens the next 4+ weeks. It should cement what their future QB strategy is - at lease short term.

Even if Darnold does get a 1 or 2 year extension, I still believe JJM is the QBOTF. He just might end-up curating a little longer than we thought back in May/June.

Love and Rogers did pretty good with that tactic.

About that, there's no doubt in my mind. JJM is the future. Just not certain when that future starts. Sure would love to find a way to get something for Sam. If that means paying him and putting JJ off another year, I'm OK with that.
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#6
If Darnold continues to play like he has the last month it would be NFL/GM malpractice to let him walk away for nothing. We won't even get a comp pick in the '26 draft. We would be giving away a young, talented, franchise QB for nothing. That's insane. McCarthy has probably thrown the fewest passes in college of any top 10 QB in recent draft history and he has now been injured for his entire rookie season. He threw no passes in the second half of a critical game!! His deep pass at Michigan was amateurish - just line drives that rarely connected. We hope that he will be able to play like Darnold is playing but we really don't know if he ever will and it is highly unlikely he will next year. I like JJ - I am a Michigan alum and a big fan of the young man - but while he has a strong arm, he probably does not have the arm talent that Darnold has. And I won't even object to moving on from Sam - so long as we get reasonable comp for a 27-year-old franchise QB. If we cannot, then keep him another year.

At least when the Chargers let Drew Brees walk away, he had a seriously injured right shoulder and the Chargers had Phillip Rivers (2d overall pick?) waiting. (And didn't the Chargers draft Eli Manning with the first pick then trade Manning for Rivers and a bunch of other picks?)
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#7
(12-16-2024, 02:35 PM)dadevike Wrote: If Darnold continues to play like he has the last month it would be NFL/GM malpractice to let him walk away for nothing. We won't even get a comp pick in the '26 draft. We would be giving away a young, talented, franchise QB for nothing. That's insane. McCarthy has probably thrown the fewest passes in college of any top 10 QB in recent draft history and he has now been injured for his entire rookie season. He threw no passes in the second half of a critical game!! His deep pass at Michigan was amateurish - just line drives that rarely connected.  We hope that he will be able to play like Darnold is playing but we really don't know if he ever will and it is highly unlikely he will next year. I like JJ - I am a Michigan alum and a big fan of the young man - but while he has a strong arm, he probably does not have the arm talent that Darnold has. And I won't even object to moving on from Sam - so long as we get reasonable comp for a 27-year-old franchise QB. If we cannot, then keep him another year.

At least when the Chargers let Drew Brees walk away, he had a seriously injured right shoulder and the Chargers had Phillip Rivers (2d overall pick?) waiting. (And didn't the Chargers draft Eli Manning with the first pick then trade Manning for Rivers and a bunch of other picks?)

Ive read where KOC and crew have been able to coach JJM to feather passes etc...But yah, until we see it consistently? We just dont know. 

The win in this for the Vikings just might be Darnold on a shorter contract and let JJM learn/play as a QB2 in 25. This is a post-season ready team and do you gamble with that on an un-proven QB?

Hopefully the next 4-6 weeks clarifies the situation.
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#8
(12-16-2024, 10:32 AM)purplefaithful Wrote: You guys are both echoing where I'm at on 12/16...

We gotta wait and see what happens the next 4+ weeks. It should cement what their future QB strategy is - at lease short term.

Even if Darnold does get a 1 or 2 year extension, I still believe JJM is the QBOTF. He just might end-up curating a little longer than we thought back in May/June.

Love and Rogers did pretty good with that tactic.

Yup...this is a topic that will continue to grow in discourse each week, as we digest what Sam did that week. 
He's on an uphill trajectory with KOCs offense (remember Kirko Chainz said it took him halfway through his first season with KOC to fully comprehend the offense).  
I'm optimistic with this weekend and the next three, but am holding my breath. 

I agree that JJM is the QBOTF, it's just a matter of when the future becomes now.  Next season, or the season after.

Think of this...if we win out with Sam, which means we win the North  and get a first round bye, would his stock not raise well above Baker Mayfield's value?
If he can command a 3 year $120mm contract for instance, that's effectively the same annual rate as franchising tagging him ($41mm).  It would totally make sense at that point (assuming his trajectory continues), to tag him for next season.

But I wouldn't seriously consider that until after Week 18 and we see how the next four weeks play out.  It's just one of many options.
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#9
(12-16-2024, 03:40 PM)purplefaithful Wrote: Ive read where KOC and crew have been able to coach JJM to feather passes etc...But yah, until we see it consistently? We just dont know. 

The win in this for the Vikings just might be Darnold on a shorter contract and let JJM learn/play as a QB2 in 25. This is a post-season ready team and do you gamble with that on an un-proven QB?

Hopefully the next 4-6 weeks clarifies the situation.

I don’t think it’s a given that this is a post-season ready team (for 2025).  In an ideal world, it should be, but our defense, which has carried our team for much of the season could be experiencing a high amount of turnover this offseason.  Flores could be out.  Almost all of our secondary is on the last year of their contracts.  Aaron Jones is on a one year contract.  Like even if we resign Smith and Gilmore, it’s not a given that their bodies hold up.
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#10
(12-16-2024, 04:46 PM)medaille Wrote: I don’t think it’s a given that this is a post-season ready team (for 2025).  In an ideal world, it should be, but our defense, which has carried our team for much of the season could be experiencing a high amount of turnover this offseason.  Flores could be out.  Almost all of our secondary is on the last year of their contracts.  Aaron Jones is on a one year contract.  Like even if we resign Smith and Gilmore, it’s not a given that their bodies hold up.

I agree that on the D side, there will be turn-over, especially in the secondary. But I expect (on paper) that it will be improved. 

It's certainly not a given, but a choice Ive made. Glass 1/2 full thing. 

That 25 will be a step forward on a team already in the post-season now. I view 25-28 as our next window. They gotta have a triggerman that they are very confident in with so much in place to surround him.


How Sam Darnold's career year affects J.J. McCarthy, Vikings

EAGAN, Minn. -- The restoration of Sam Darnold's career truly began on the morning of April 25, 43 days after he signed a one-year free agent deal with the Minnesota Vikings.

It was draft day, and Minnesota was preparing to take a franchise quarterback in the first round. But they viewed Darnold, the No. 3 pick in the 2018 draft, as more than insurance for the rookie, and coach Kevin O'Connell wanted Darnold to hear that directly from the source.

So O'Connell summoned Darnold to his office for a 10:30 a.m. meeting and, for 45 minutes on a time-crunched day, he explained the plan. The Vikings' draft pick (who turned out to be Michigan's J.J. McCarthy at No. 10) would not be rushed onto the field, O'Connell told Darnold.

There were no guarantees of how much Darnold would play in 2024, but O'Connell emphasized what a good fit he thought Darnold was for the Vikings and made clear he could be an important part of the team's success, O'Connell said in an interview with ESPN this summer.

Reserved by nature, Darnold was touched. After blowing through three teams in five seasons, he had landed with a coach and an organization with a plan to rebuild his confidence.

That foundational moment remains instructive, as Darnold -- transformed in every way that matters on a football field -- leads the 11-2 Vikings into Monday night's game against the Chicago Bears (8:20 p.m. ET, ESPN/ABC) in front of a home crowd that has taken to chanting "MVP" when he appears on videoboards.

"He's playing so well," O'Connell said, "and he's so rooted in the moment."IN WHAT WAS already a career-best season, Darnold hit his stride over the past month. He has thrown for 1,158 yards with 11 touchdowns and no interceptions over the past four games. He has engineered three game-winning drives during that stretch and led the league in completions on passes of at least 15 air yards, putting himself on pace for a 4,100-yard, 35-touchdown season.

Darnold has played well enough to leave the Vikings more open-minded about their 2025 plans than many realize, according to sources familiar with the Vikings' thinking. They have not ruled out offering him a contract for next season, despite widespread assumptions they will let him sign elsewhere in free agency and hand the job to McCarthy, who has spent his rookie season recovering from a torn meniscus in his right knee.

Whether Darnold receives a more lucrative offer elsewhere remains to be determined, as quarterback-needy teams are just beginning the process of assessing his season. But he raised eyebrows earlier this month when he told Fox Sports reporter Pam Oliver: "There's no other place I'd rather play. Just so grateful to be a Viking."

Other public comments have emphasized Darnold's mind will always be "where my feet are." He has refused to speculate about how his performance will impact his future, or reflect on his experiences. In the meantime, the Vikings have also engaged in a delicate semantic dance.

O'Connell has encouraged Darnold's focus on his daily routine and praised him last week for being "so demanding of himself, but [also] the way he hasn't put the weight of the world on his shoulders." General manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah hasn't spoken publicly since before the season began, but he has often deferred to O'Connell on quarterback decisions.

ESPN

While the Vikings' decision-makers remain open-minded on 2025, they put some strategies in place to prepare for an eventual parting of the ways if it happens.

To optimize McCarthy's development while on injured reserve, Darnold agreed to wear a modified camera on his helmet during practices and walk-throughs. McCarthy uses the video to simulate practice reps via virtual reality. The Vikings also signed veteran quarterback Daniel Jones, who was released by the New York Giants, to their practice squad last month, a move widely viewed as an early look at a potential candidate to replace Darnold next season as the veteran alongside McCarthy.

Any concerns about rattling or distracting Darnold with those efforts have been rendered moot by his performance. Darnold has accomplished so much this season, offensive coordinator Wes Phillips said last week, that there is no need to worry about next steps as the Vikings (11-2) push to make a deep playoff run.

"In my mind, I would hope he would say, 'The body of work that I've put in so far is going to take care of the future, so really all I need to worry about is right now,'" Phillips said. "I think we all know that Sam is going to be a sought-after type of guy from wherever that may be. So whatever his future ends up being, I know all of us in this building are going to be happy for him.

"I don't think he has to worry about that anymore. I think the worry might have been this is my opportunity to play. He's past all that. He's proven the doubters [wrong] and he's proven that he can play in this league. So let's just make this the best possible season we can have starting this week."

OVER THE PAST month, NFL team executives contacted by ESPN about the Vikings' situation with Darnold have most commonly raised comparisons to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' experience with quarterback Baker Mayfield, drafted two spots ahead of Darnold in 2018. They were briefly Carolina Panthers teammates in 2022.

Mayfield signed a one-year, $4 million contract to compete for the Buccaneers' starting job in 2023. After winning the gig, throwing for 4,044 yards and 28 touchdowns and leading the Buccaneers to the divisional round of the playoffs, he re-signed for three years and $100 million last spring. The deal included $30 million fully guaranteed in 2024 and another $10 million for 2025. Mayfield entered Week 15 tied for third -- with Darnold -- with 28 touchdown passes, and Mayfield is fourth with 3,329 yards for a Bucs team that leads the NFC South.

Darnold ranks first on ESPN's list of pending free agent quarterbacks, ahead of Justin Fields. The Mayfield deal would be on the lower end of what Darnold could expect this spring, an AFC team executive said, citing the relatively thin 2025 draft class compared to 2024.

In the meantime, the executive said, the league will try to understand how much of Darnold's success is based on his own maturation and development and how much should be attributed to O'Connell's system and playcalling, along with the presence of elite-level pass catchers in Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison and T.J. Hockenson.

"What's Darnold doing versus what's the product of the [Vikings' system]?" the executive said. "The first half of the season he's playing with a lead every game. Now their games have gotten stickier and he's doing more. That could be a trend."

At the very least, Darnold has matched his arm strength with the talent around him. He leads the NFL with 17 completions that have traveled at least 20 yards past the line of scrimmage, including touchdowns of 97 and 52 yards to Jefferson and 49 and 47 to Addison.

"He definitely has that strong arm," Jefferson said, "to just be able to fit those throws into tight windows and just be able to run those deep throws and be able to take the top off defenses. Those are things that defenses got to respect. ... We feel like the whole playbook is kind of open toward Sam being able to throw it all across the field."

Said Hockenson: "I love seeing Sam let those balls loose. He'll throw one deep, and it's fun to watch. It kind of just soars through the air. It looks like he just flicks it and it goes away. It's fun to see that happen."

Darnold's recent surge has clouded the fact that, as recently as two weeks ago, he was leading the NFL with 14 turnovers. He hit rock bottom during a 12-7 victory in Week 10 against the Jacksonville Jaguars, when he threw three interceptions on balls targeted for Jefferson. O'Connell defended him after that game, saying Darnold had the talent and capacity to play much better and insisting he had never considered benching him.

"Looking back on that game," Darnold said, "I wasn't too disappointed in the decisions that I made. It was where I located the ball or how I threw the ball I was more disappointed with.

"The biggest thing for me is just continuing to make good decisions and being able to, when I do let the ball rip, let it rip with confidence."

Could Darnold maintain that confidence elsewhere? The Vikings are in position to render that question moot. They could apply the franchise tag to Darnold at a cost of roughly $40 million for 2025 or give him their own version of the Mayfield contract before the free agent market opens. Another option is to trade him after using the franchise tag.

Darnold will turn 28 in June, and there isn't a notable recent history of NFL teams allowing younger quarterbacks to leave without compensation at the risk of watching them go on to have successful careers elsewhere.

The most glaring example is Drew Brees leaving the San Diego Chargers to sign with the New Orleans Saints via free agency in 2006 when he was 27. Even that decision, however, was complicated by a shoulder injury and the presence of backup Philip Rivers, whom the Chargers drafted in 2004 and went on to throw for 63,440 yards and 421 touchdowns over 17 seasons.

Is Darnold a rare example of a player otherwise destined for stardom who simply encountered historically bad environments during his time with the New York Jets and the Panthers? That's the question the Vikings must answer, one that team sources insist they have not yet done. 

Realistic teammates, however, know Darnold is about to get paid.

"He's a great dude and I love him being a part of the team," right tackle Brian O'Neill said. "So from that perspective, you want everybody to go make a billion dollars. You want somebody who's worked hard, been through a lot of stuff, been through some bad situations in the past, to come out on the other side and get rewarded for it."

IS MCCARTHY THE Philip Rivers of the Chargers' 2006 scenario? The Vikings not only have to answer that question, but their decision on Darnold will be predicated at least in part on whether McCarthy can be Rivers in 2025 or if his timeline will be pushed back.

Before he tore his meniscus Aug. 10, the Vikings had grown increasingly excited about the likelihood that he would be ready to play this season -- and there was an outside chance that he could have beaten out Darnold for the Week 1 starter's job. The injury not only set back those plans, but they also limited his capacity for developing over the course of his rookie season.

NFL rules prohibit players on injured reserve from participating in or even attending practice, regardless of whether their injuries are healed. The best McCarthy has been able to do is use the footage from Darnold's helmet camera, which provides audio of the playcall in the huddle, a view of protection calls on the line of scrimmage and the sequence of Darnold's reads based on coverage.

The video can be transferred to a wall of screens in the Vikings' draft room, according to Wes Phillips, giving McCarthy a life-size view of the field. More commonly, however, he watches it with a virtual reality visor. He can also attend and participate in all quarterback and team meetings behind the scenes.

"He's doing everything he can to be ready when his time comes," Phillips said.

From a physical standpoint, McCarthy recently "turned a corner," O'Connell said. His initial recovery included six weeks of essentially being immobile, forcing him to ride a scooter around the team facility. Swelling developed in early November as he began to ramp up his recovery work, requiring a second procedure on Nov. 11 that resulted in a PRP (platelet-rich plasma) injection.

McCarthy hasn't spoken to Minnesota reporters since Sept. 6, but in a Nov. 26 appearance on "The L.A.B. Podcast" with former Michigan tight end Jake Butt, he said his knee "is on the road that they told me it was going to be on, which was up and down, sideways, backwards, all the way around."

"The PRP; got that done," McCarthy added. "So going in there and having to get cut open wasn't great, but it's all right because it's part of the process. I'm in a good spot now."

Has he done enough to allow the Vikings to let Darnold depart? Former Vikings general manager Rick Spielman, for one, doesn't think so.

"He's a rookie," Spielman said last week of McCarthy, while speaking on the "With the First Pick" podcast. "He's going to start over from scratch. He didn't do anything this year. He's not practicing. He's sitting in meetings. He's rehabbing. He hasn't done one thing since that surgery except rehab, throw the ball on the side, maybe, but he's not practicing. So you're starting from square one with him."

Spielman doesn't have the same access as Vikings coaches and executives to the details of McCarthy's behind-the-scenes work. Speaking last week, O'Connell said McCarthy has been "really good staying true to the priorities that we have in place." The two have met on a weekly basis since the injury to help replicate the process they will one day follow for real.

"[McCarthy is] really getting to a place where he's healthy," O'Connell said, "and now it can be more about the physical side of things moving forward. He's starting that process and kind of in the middle of it right now. ... I know this: When I meet with him one-on-one every week, he's got great questions, and they're very in depth and really shows me a guy that's learning, not just the top layer. He's really trying to consume a lot of information as if he was playing. So it's been great to hear that."

Shannon Sharpe: Vikings shouldn't pay Sam Darnold

Shannon Sharpe explains why he would not give Sam Darnold a long-term contract despite his stellar season for the Vikings.

MEANWHILE, JONES' PRESENCE is a reminder there may be another possibility. If Darnold departs and McCarthy isn't healthy by summer, the Vikings could re-sign Jones for a similar short-term revival.

"We've just challenged [Jones] to absorb all the information," O'Connell said, "and using that as a barometer of where we want to take our teaching moving forward as we systematically build him up. He's very smart. ... He looks like a guy, when he throws a football, that's played a lot of football. And in the pocket, his feel. So, it's been fun to have him here. I think he's doing a great job. Little by little, getting him more comfortable with what we do around here."

In the meantime, the Vikings are in the midst of an unexpected playoff push. ESPN's Football Power Index projected them for 6.8 victories when the season began amid their quarterback transition, a win total they surpassed during the second week of November. FPI now gives them the NFL's seventh-best chance to win the Super Bowl (5.9%).

If you're looking for Darnold, though, he won't be hard to find. Speaking last Wednesday, he said he has learned to focus only on "what's important right now -- and that's having a really good Wednesday practice."

"I've kind of always understood how important it is to be where my feet are, to just be locked in in the moment," he added. "Because when you're not, when you start thinking about things in the future or things that might have happened in the past, you stop [focusing on] what's important."
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