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In other news. Titanic sinks, 1507 souls lost.
He should be at camp he has a contract. Not a team leader
Quote: @Bullazin said:
He should be at camp he has a contract. Not a team leader
While I do agree that in a perfect world he would be there, NFL
contract negotiation isn’t a perfect world.
These contracts aren’t meant to be played out as the back end of most
long term contracts are funny for cap reasons and there’s often an unwritten agreement
that they’ll be taken care of prior to the end of the contract, and maybe that
was with Spielman and not Kwesi, but regardless, not participating is some of
the only leverage he has and it’s a standard NFL negotiating tactic. It is not reflective of his leadership characteristics.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Bullazin said:
He should be at camp he has a contract. Not a team leader
While I do agree that in a perfect world he would be there, NFL
contract negotiation isn’t a perfect world.
These contracts aren’t meant to be played out as the back end of most
long term contracts are funny for cap reasons and there’s often an unwritten agreement
that they’ll be taken care of prior to the end of the contract, and maybe that
was with Spielman and not Kwesi, but regardless, not participating is some of
the only leverage he has and it’s a standard NFL negotiating tactic. It is not reflective of his leadership characteristics.
what leverage is that? he doesnt participate, he doesnt play, he doesnt get paid and his contract doesnt advance. If he sits out and ends up devaluing himself how does that help him with his next contract? He misses mini camp, it really on helps the back up get a shot at showcasing himself with a better supporting cast and IMO hurts Hunter. If this stretched into camp/ and the season then he really gets devalued as does his trade value. I know its how its done, but I just dont think either party wins in a hold out.
With a new defensive coordinator this season Hunter is already behind. If it stretches into camp he is farther behind even more. This not only hurts him trying to catch up but it also hurts the team by not showing. Understand he is underpaid but maybe if he shows up in good faith the team will respond and negotiate in good faith. Leadership characteristic, hardly. Report to the team and let the agent work out a new deal.
Holding out is tougher now under the current CBA. I am a Vikings fan, but I am usually pretty sensitive to what players want. It is a violent game and careers are usually quite short.
Hunter may not be able to afford a true holdout because that could cost him a couple million dollars. But other star players have shown how to do a "hold-in." Jalen Ramsey missed several games when he wanted out of Jax by saying he had a sore back. The sore back cleared up once he was traded. I think it was Deandre Hopkins who claimed he had now-and-then hamstring soreness when he wanted a new deal in Arizona. That route is a bit riskier for Hunter because he has had injuries lately. But I suppose everyone would understand what he was doing.
Hunter is still young-ish and he is still really good. We don't know what the issue is with Hunter and KAM. Maybe Hunter was 4 or 5 years and KAM wants 2 max. Who knows? But if someone is willing to (1) give the Vikings adequate comp and (2) give Hunter the deal he wants, . . . may need to trade him. But I would not give him away like with Z and Cook. My preference is we pay Hunter and keep him a Viking for the next 4 years.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
@ Bullazin said:
He should be at camp he has a contract. Not a team leader
While I do agree that in a perfect world he would be there, NFL
contract negotiation isn’t a perfect world.
These contracts aren’t meant to be played out as the back end of most
long term contracts are funny for cap reasons and there’s often an unwritten agreement
that they’ll be taken care of prior to the end of the contract, and maybe that
was with Spielman and not Kwesi, but regardless, not participating is some of
the only leverage he has and it’s a standard NFL negotiating tactic. It is not reflective of his leadership characteristics.
what leverage is that? he doesnt participate, he doesnt play, he doesnt get paid and his contract doesnt advance. If he sits out and ends up devaluing himself how does that help him with his next contract? He misses mini camp, it really on helps the back up get a shot at showcasing himself with a better supporting cast and IMO hurts Hunter. If this stretched into camp/ and the season then he really gets devalued as does his trade value. I know its how its done, but I just dont think either party wins in a hold out.
He’s not going to sit out for real. The amount you can sit out without getting
fined is pretty minimal. But the
leverage is that you’re a coach and a GM who’s job is to maximize winning. If you feel like not having your star players
practicing or buying in to your system, at some point maybe you think that you’re
not going to win a couple key games, or you’re going to go 0-3 to start the
season while your players get up to speed, and your coaching job could get
taken from you, because you’re not performing.
Obviously, I don’t think this is a huge threat or impediment, because coaches
and GMs don’t really take it that seriously during minicamps. But to be fair, if Hunter were to sit out,
his contract situation would be resolved fairly quickly. Not having Hunter on our defense, and not planning
to get another starting caliber DE is probably going to knock 3 wins off our
record this year. He’s probably in that
handful of players that a holdout would be worth it, where the pain to the team
would outweigh, the negative financial impact to the player.
Quote: @dadevike said:
Holding out is tougher now under the current CBA. I am a Vikings fan, but I am usually pretty sensitive to what players want. It is a violent game and careers are usually quite short.
Hunter may not be able to afford a true holdout because that could cost him a couple million dollars. But other star players have shown how to do a "hold-in." Jalen Ramsey missed several games when he wanted out of Jax by saying he had a sore back. The sore back cleared up once he was traded. I think it was Deandre Hopkins who claimed he had now-and-then hamstring soreness when he wanted a new deal in Arizona. That route is a bit riskier for Hunter because he has had injuries lately. But I suppose everyone would understand what he was doing.
Hunter is still young-ish and he is still really good. We don't know what the issue is with Hunter and KAM. Maybe Hunter was 4 or 5 years and KAM wants 2 max. Who knows? But if someone is willing to (1) give the Vikings adequate comp and (2) give Hunter the deal he wants, . . . may need to trade him. But I would not give him away like with Z and Cook. My preference is we pay Hunter and keep him a Viking for the next 4 years.
I think the very mainstream example is Lamar Jackson. Regardless of whether or not you think it was
worth it or a good idea, if he was sitting on a stack of guaranteed money there’s
a reasonable chance he would have toughed it out in the playoffs, as opposed to
the scale weighing heavily on not hurting himself and his chance to get paid,
and that ended up being another year thrown away for that coaching staff. That said, their HC/GM combo is much safer
than ours is.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Bullazin said:
He should be at camp he has a contract. Not a team leader
While I do agree that in a perfect world he would be there, NFL
contract negotiation isn’t a perfect world.
These contracts aren’t meant to be played out as the back end of most
long term contracts are funny for cap reasons and there’s often an unwritten agreement
that they’ll be taken care of prior to the end of the contract, and maybe that
was with Spielman and not Kwesi, but regardless, not participating is some of
the only leverage he has and it’s a standard NFL negotiating tactic. It is not reflective of his leadership characteristics.
Agree...I don't know why folks get so bent out of shape. Everyone knew he was underpaid. Everyone knew both sides wanted to re-do his deal. Everyone knew until they did, he wouldn't show up. It's not unusual.
The two sides just haven't come together yet. If they do, he'll be at training camp and no one will remember the little holdout. If they don't, he'll be traded for draft capital, which we'll likely use for a QB.
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