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Like I said before, whatever they do on defense has to be better than what we've seen the last 2 years. Make as many changes as they deem necessary.
Sounds like it doesn't necessarily mean they're gone. But the Vikings could've avoided DT's 7.5 dead cap hit by re-doing his deal before yesterday. So with DT at least, they either don't care about the hit (unlikely) or they don't want him back.
Peterson and Tomlinson would be free agents at the start of the league year. The exact wording is that their deals for next year are void as of today. But he’s still on his 2022 deal until the league year begins. Vikings could still do deals that convert void years to real years.
Patrick Peterson's also voids today, in 15 minutes. Although since it's just one void year, there's no extra years to accelerate, so if he hits the market then returns to Minnesota, it's functionally the same as signing an extension. So no reason to expect any action on this.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Like I said before, whatever they do on defense has to be better than what we've seen the last 2 years. Make as many changes as they deem necessary.
Changes need to be made definitely but I'm not sure how potentially losing our best CB and best DT makes the defense better.
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
Vikings are in a weird spot. Because while you could argue a full rebuild makes sense on one side of the ball, it absolutely does not on the other. On that side it's ready to compete for a championship. Very curious to see how they manage this.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
As a 3-4 end, I haven't seen as much out of him as would expect from the salary. Seems more like a 3T than an end, good at penetration, not at taking up blocks.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
Vikings are in a weird spot. Because while you could argue a full rebuild makes sense on one side of the ball, it absolutely does not on the other. On that side it's ready to compete for a championship. Very curious to see how they manage this.
The next week at the combine will really paint the picture. Naturally you would hope they could improve defensively with guys simply knowing the system/scheme. Schemed pressure is also more predictable regardless of talent. So with Flores even if they "Gut" the defense in many ways they could statistically be better.
Flip to the other side of the coin and you could make an argument that they go all-in on offense and simply hope a top 5 offense gets them further. The question on that is how sustainable would it be with a 35 year old QB who is coming off an average season and a 27 year old RB who counts for nearly $15M on the cap? Once you talk through it you start to realize they are really between a rock and a hard place.
Part of me thinks this will end up being the year they pay and move up for a QB. It actually allows them to play this out one more time in many ways. Would it hurt to give up Hunter or a 2024 1st? Sure. But I think this FO will think about it in "resources". Is a 1st round pick valuable? Yes. But is it as valuable as $20-30M in cap space? Arguably not. They end up keeping Thielen, Cook, Harrison, etc. for one more go-around. If they backloaded a contract or two they could still add on the defensive side of the ball.
Then they would plan to transition to a rookie QB in 2024 with many of those players off the roster. Its a cleaner reset in some ways. Although they would be missing a 1st round pick they would have $30M+ in cap space to play around with and even more in 2025. So think of 2023 as a competitive year, 2024 as a reset and 2025 as the return assuming the QB works out.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
Vikings are in a weird spot. Because while you could argue a full rebuild makes sense on one side of the ball, it absolutely does not on the other. On that side it's ready to compete for a championship. Very curious to see how they manage this.
The next week at the combine will really paint the picture. Naturally you would hope they could improve defensively with guys simply knowing the system/scheme. Schemed pressure is also more predictable regardless of talent. So with Flores even if they "Gut" the defense in many ways they could statistically be better.
Flip to the other side of the coin and you could make an argument that they go all-in on offense and simply hope a top 5 offense gets them further. The question on that is how sustainable would it be with a 35 year old QB who is coming off an average season and a 27 year old RB who counts for nearly $15M on the cap? Once you talk through it you start to realize they are really between a rock and a hard place.
Part of me thinks this will end up being the year they pay and move up for a QB. It actually allows them to play this out one more time in many ways. Would it hurt to give up Hunter or a 2024 1st? Sure. But I think this FO will think about it in "resources". Is a 1st round pick valuable? Yes. But is it as valuable as $20-30M in cap space? Arguably not. They end up keeping Thielen, Cook, Harrison, etc. for one more go-around. If they backloaded a contract or two they could still add on the defensive side of the ball.
Then they would plan to transition to a rookie QB in 2024 with many of those players off the roster. Its a cleaner reset in some ways. Although they would be missing a 1st round pick they would have $30M+ in cap space to play around with and even more in 2025. So think of 2023 as a competitive year, 2024 as a reset and 2025 as the return assuming the QB works out.
one question.... what is Cousins trade value right now? if they follow your scenario he walks and the team gets at best a 3rd round comp pick, and possibly nothing if they are active in free agency. why wait 1 more year and get nothing?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Likely means that Tomlinson is gone based on the larger dead money number. But this does not suggest P2 won't return at all. Since P2 had only a single void year the cap impact would have been the same regardless if they re-signed him before the void date or not. Tomlinson's is more impactful since an extension would have prevented the void years (3 at $2.5M) from advancing onto this years cap.
To put it in perspective, if Tomlinson was willing to take a market rate deal the Vikings could have kept him on the roster near the $7.5M cap number if not less. So in my opinion either his agent was asking for the moon or the Vikings simply didn't like him as much as they led on.
Vikings are in a weird spot. Because while you could argue a full rebuild makes sense on one side of the ball, it absolutely does not on the other. On that side it's ready to compete for a championship. Very curious to see how they manage this.
The next week at the combine will really paint the picture. Naturally you would hope they could improve defensively with guys simply knowing the system/scheme. Schemed pressure is also more predictable regardless of talent. So with Flores even if they "Gut" the defense in many ways they could statistically be better.
Flip to the other side of the coin and you could make an argument that they go all-in on offense and simply hope a top 5 offense gets them further. The question on that is how sustainable would it be with a 35 year old QB who is coming off an average season and a 27 year old RB who counts for nearly $15M on the cap? Once you talk through it you start to realize they are really between a rock and a hard place.
Part of me thinks this will end up being the year they pay and move up for a QB. It actually allows them to play this out one more time in many ways. Would it hurt to give up Hunter or a 2024 1st? Sure. But I think this FO will think about it in "resources". Is a 1st round pick valuable? Yes. But is it as valuable as $20-30M in cap space? Arguably not. They end up keeping Thielen, Cook, Harrison, etc. for one more go-around. If they backloaded a contract or two they could still add on the defensive side of the ball.
Then they would plan to transition to a rookie QB in 2024 with many of those players off the roster. Its a cleaner reset in some ways. Although they would be missing a 1st round pick they would have $30M+ in cap space to play around with and even more in 2025. So think of 2023 as a competitive year, 2024 as a reset and 2025 as the return assuming the QB works out.
I don't know what Kwesi's thinking, but I extend Cousins (short), Hock (long) and Harry (short); trade Dalvin; cut Kendricks, Thielen, Ham, Hicks and Reed; and restructure O'Neill. Just in those few moves, the Vikings could be 30-35M under the cap--enough to add a couple B-Flo picks to the defense. Then tee it up again and hope for the best.
Cousins will be better his 2nd year in the offense and I think Flores could make the defense competitive with a couple key additions.
Just think the Vikings are more likely to win a Super Bowl in our lifetimes with Cousins and Jefferson than they would by resetting, especially at QB. Because even if the Vikings were able to somehow score the #1 overall pick, that's no guarantee of anything. Far from it. We keep hearing Byrce Young is a can't miss or Caleb Williams is. Maybe. But did you know that in the last 33 drafts only ONE QB taken #1 overall has won a Super Bowl for the team who drafted him? ONE. In 33 years. 20 QBs. The key? Get lucky. Or get a vet. And we already have one.
In the meantime, let's see if we can't bring this defense up to league average. JMO.
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