OT: Says the guy worth $240 billion....

[StickyBun]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-say...47925.html

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-say...47925.html

Ironic how he says the top-notch scientists and engineers aren't doing it for the money but because it is not boring and rewarding in the discovery process.  But then he forces the Chinese factory workers (and would with the American workforce if not for labor laws) to work 12 hours shifts of the same boring job 6 days a week and sleep over in the factory.  But hey, he does provide sleeping bags which is very considerate.  He sacrificed once and slept in the factory so he can relate

He is brilliant and clearly a Type A like many great minds have been.  But most of the time, these are horrible people to work with or for.  Steve Jobs was a first grade A-hole and the list is endless.  These Billionaire business "owners" can't understand why the "workers" aren't as motivated as them doing the same thing for 12 hours a day for the same compensation with no chance at a golden parachute, stock options etc

I find the analogy for some former NFL football players who try to be HC's.  Many, (mike singeltary comes to mind) just can't understand why the player can't play like they did.  The player must not understand his coaching or something....No they aren't as talented as you are and you have to coach to the best of their ability not what yours was.  

[Guest]

It is what it is. 
When you are desperate, you’ll submit yourself to worse working
conditions.  The 996 schedule isn’t a
musk thing, but a China thing and it’s one of the selling factors to
businessmen.  We have a lot of
regulations that have improved our standard of living (and also a lot of
regulations designed to suppress businesses). 
These drive up costs.  It’s
important for our government to impose the same standards on products that are
imported as are manufactured here.  If we
value a regulation enough to have it here, we should value it enough to have it
everywhere.  We need to have a system of
tariffs that level the playing fields between countries that care less about
their people and the earth as they import into countries that care more.


This is a governmental problem, not a single person
problem.  Obviously people shouldn’t
produce goods in these countries, but they’ve shown time and again that profits
are the driving factor, and we as a society need to remove the profit motive.


Secondarily, there’s a pretty big motivation difference
between an employee and owner in terms of how much they’re willing to work
because of how much is at stake.  The
issue has less to do with employees being less motivated, but more to do with
we need to make it much easier for people to become owners.  We’ve been put within an employee framework
through schooling, where we were trained to work for other people, and it’s hard
to see outside that box, but we need to work together to become owners of the
work and equipment that are in our daily life.

[Guest]

This is an old story, both my grandads entered the coal mines at 13, both had ruined lungs in their 40.  

Hard work is valuable and an issue of character. I personally think Musk is an exploiter in a similar vein as the early mine companies, and his comments imply if not confirm it. 

Its nauseating to hear talk about him sleeping on the floor, when he has 24/7 access to personal physicians, trainers, chefs. 

[Guest]

@minny65 said:

@StickyBun said:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-say...47925.html

Ironic how he says the top-notch scientists and engineers aren't doing it for the money but because it is not boring and rewarding in the discovery process.  But then he forces the Chinese factory workers (and would with the American workforce if not for labor laws) to work 12 hours shifts of the same boring job 6 days a week and sleep over in the factory.  But hey, he does provide sleeping bags which is very considerate.  He sacrificed once and slept in the factory so he can relate

Clients son worked for Tesla in the early days.  The only thing he wasn't doing was sleeping AT the office.

[Guest]

@medaille said:
It is what it is. 
When you are desperate, you’ll submit yourself to worse working
conditions.  The 996 schedule isn’t a
musk thing, but a China thing and it’s one of the selling factors to
businessmen.  We have a lot of
regulations that have improved our standard of living (and also a lot of
regulations designed to suppress businesses). 
These drive up costs.  It’s
important for our government to impose the same standards on products that are
imported as are manufactured here.  If we
value a regulation enough to have it here, we should value it enough to have it
everywhere.  We need to have a system of
tariffs that level the playing fields between countries that care less about
their people and the earth as they import into countries that care more.


This is a governmental problem, not a single person
problem.  Obviously people shouldn’t
produce goods in these countries, but they’ve shown time and again that profits
are the driving factor, and we as a society need to remove the profit motive.


Secondarily, there’s a pretty big motivation difference
between an employee and owner in terms of how much they’re willing to work
because of how much is at stake.  The
issue has less to do with employees being less motivated, but more to do with
we need to make it much easier for people to become owners.  We’ve been put within an employee framework
through schooling, where we were trained to work for other people, and it’s hard
to see outside that box, but we need to work together to become owners of the
work and equipment that are in our daily life.

That is all true but it has also been talked about for the last 40 years since Buy American.  Then all the American companies moved oversees for cheap labor, lower taxes, and less worker protections all for the investors (ha!).   You mention remove the profit motive but again how...we are an uber capitalistic economy where big business/corporations literally own our government officials.  The trend in this country is more advantages for Corporate not less.  The small business people think they are part of this pro corporate/capitalistic band of brothers and the corporate world only cares about 1 thing - making more money at all cost because the faceless investor demands it.  Greed is part of human nature and any unchecked economic system is bound to swing wealth to the very few.  The workers and small business owners be damned.  Elon wants American workers to be like the Chinese workers again cheap labor, no protections, long hours etc...talk about a step back into the 1900's before regulations and unions.

Lastly, not everyone is capable or should be an owner.  

(Disclaimer - I love my Tesla but that doesn't mean I agree with everything Musk says and does  He is a great mind but I would never want to work with him, he is a douchebag.  

[Guest]

Chinese companies are subsidized by their government. They don't care about margins that much, just output volume. Their answer for everything when you work with them is for the American company to lower the price. Easy to say when the Chinese company can be making 4% margin on product X, but then the government chips in another 15-17% to their gross margins. Doesn't work like that here. Chinese workers don't like working long hours, either....but its either that or lose their jobs. Chinese work salaries are increasing however, so they even further incentive to work like animals. Musk knows all this and its why what he says in this article is such a load of bullshit. 

[Guest]

Hey Elon,

[Guest]

This is one of his children's names X Æ A-Xii.


Musk stated that A-12 stands for Archangel 12, the name of one of his planes. So the name X Æ A-12 is pronounced as "X-Ash-A-Twelve

[Guest]

Good for Elon. I am glad that there is an elite to punch the Gates' and Fauci's of the world.