A second look at lions trade

[Bullazin]

https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/nfl-draft-2022/vikings-gms-trade-with-lions-tapped-as-one-of-best-moves-in-draft

basically the author says it was Williams and Paschal for Cine, Booth, Ingram and Asamoah 

[Guest]

I don't think the national media slammed the Vikings organization quite as hard as local fans (not that vikingsterritory.com is anything but fandom) over that trade. Yes, the team got dinged a little but it wasn't the 'KAM got prison raped over this trade!' type anger.

[Guest]

@Bullazin said:
https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/nfl-draft-2022/vikings-gms-trade-with-lions-tapped-as-one-of-best-moves-in-draft

basically the author says it was Williams and Paschal for Cine, Booth, Ingram and Asamoah 

Well...when you put it that way.... :-)

You can make any transaction work in your favor by seeing it through a different lens. It's going to look real good for the Vikings in '22 when Cine is starting at safety and Williams is on that almost season-long "is he going to play this week?" watch. But '23 will be a different story. 

Still, the Vikings should've gotten more in the trade down. Who moves all the way from 32 to 12 and somehow still gets that team's 2nd rounder? 

[Guest]

When I first saw the trade (didn't get to watch draft, just checked in with my phone) and we dropped back to 32 and were getting a 2 & 3, I thought we must be getting a 2023 1st as well. Nope. Then I saw we were also giving them our 2. I couldn't believe it. IMO it was a bad trade value-wise. I think we did more with our picks than the Lions and probably will turn out better than them, but the value return was poor.

[Guest]

@PurplePastor said:
...... but the value return was poor.

Yep. Don't think anyone is denying that. Hopefully KAM will learn from that. But its still about the players chosen and how they'll pan out. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@Bullazin said:
https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/nfl-draft-2022/vikings-gms-trade-with-lions-tapped-as-one-of-best-moves-in-draft

basically the author says it was Williams and Paschal for Cine, Booth, Ingram and Asamoah 

Well...when you put it that way.... :-)

You can make any transaction work in your favor by seeing it through a different lens. It's going to look real good for the Vikings in '22 when Cine is starting at safety and Williams is on that almost season-long "is he going to play this week?" watch. But '23 will be a different story. 

Still, the Vikings should've gotten more in the trade down. Who moves all the way from 32 to 12 and somehow still gets that team's 2nd rounder? 

No doubt, value was poor by any chart and majority of fans/media in terms of value.  But we might benefit in the long run...might.  Again, judge in 3 years blah blah.  Most point value charts, actually all, that I looked at indicated that to drop down from 12 is about even with 32 and 34.  But I also agree that we should have got more to drop from 12 to a divisional rival.  Like Maroon and others have said we should have got the Lions #1 for 2023 instead of either pick 32 or 34.  Point wise we might be have been able to get an additional Lions 4th rounder this year which was pick 97.  We can all assume that it would probably be a top 10 next year. 

So a trade in our favor would have been:  Lions get 12
                                                                Vikings get 32, next years 1st round, and this years pick 97.

That would have been a very good trade - IMO.  

We would be left with: 32,46,77,97

So we take Cine at 32 and lets say we still need to trade to 42 to get Booth.  Draft value says to move from 46 to 42 we would have to give up around 40pts or a 5th rounder.  But we also could have taken the chance that Booth falls to 46. None of the teams in between 42 and 46 took a CB.  That said I like the Booth pick better then Cine.  But if just reverse the order what does it matter. I am going to pretend we picked Booth at 32 and then moved up for Cine to 42.  Makes me feel better and it is all about my comfort folks   Also, I am not a fan of the Ingram or Asamoah picks for two different reasons.

In the 77 range that I would have targeted would have been the Travis Jones DT- CT.  Then Dylan Parhan (G - Memphis)was pick 90 and we had 97 so within range of a move up and giving away very little - IMO.

Draft would have been in order (for me): Booth, Cine, Travis Jones, and Parham.......and a top pick for 2023!!!

[Guest]

@PurplePastor said:
When I first saw the trade (didn't get to watch draft, just checked in with my phone) and we dropped back to 32 and were getting a 2 & 3, I thought we must be getting a 2023 1st as well. Nope. Then I saw we were also giving them our 2. I couldn't believe it. IMO it was a bad trade value-wise. I think we did more with our picks than the Lions and probably will turn out better than them, but the value return was poor.

Kinda like when the Vikings traded all those players for Herschel Walker - and the next day we found out it was draft picks too

Ok, literally not that bad; but it was that same kinda bad twist in your stomach. 

[Guest]

I suspect that once Sauce, Stingley, and Wilson were gone, KAM needed to find a trade partner. He says he really liked Williams and was thinking of taking him, but that's probably not true. What's he going to say? There is nothing to be gained by saying he did not think Williams was worth a 12.  So if he does not make the trade, he is left taking a player he does not want at 12 (Hamilton?) and the Lions make the same trade for 13 or 14 and still get Williams. 
Same thing happened with the GB trade. GB wanted Watson. KAM did not. Either he makes the trade with GB or GB makes the same trade at the next spot. 
In other words, the only way KAM could prevent the Lions or GB from getting Williams and Watson was to take them himself ad he did not want that.

[Guest]

@dadevike said:
I suspect that once Sauce, Stingley, and Wilson were gone, KAM needed to find a trade partner. He says he really liked Williams and was thinking of taking him, but that's probably not true. What's he going to say? There is nothing to be gained by saying he did not think Williams was worth a 12.  So if he does not make the trade, he is left taking a player he does not want at 12 (Hamilton?) and the Lions make the same trade for 13 or 14 and still get Williams. 
Same thing happened with the GB trade. GB wanted Watson. KAM did not. Either he makes the trade with GB or GB makes the same trade at the next spot. 
In other words, the only way KAM could prevent the Lions or GB from getting Williams and Watson was to take them himself ad he did not want that.

I agree with you on the GB deal but I doubt the Lions could have gotten Williams if we didn't make that deal. Almost certainly not for the same package. The Texans were slated to pick at 13 but moved down 2 spots to 15. Eagles jumped up to take Jordan Davis at 13. Convincing the Texans to move all the way down to 32 would have been tricky. Baltimore took Hamilton at 14 and wasn't moving. Then WRs went at 16 and 18.

The point is they might have been able to get Williams but there were only a couple other teams who may have done it and I'm not sure any of them wanted to drop all the way back to 32. We'll never know.
I agree with whoever said it above-- hopefully KAM learns his lesson on this and tries to get better value for any trade downs in the future. He did a great job on that with the GB trade.

[Guest]

@dadevike said:
I suspect that once Sauce, Stingley, and Wilson were gone, KAM needed to find a trade partner. He says he really liked Williams and was thinking of taking him, but that's probably not true. What's he going to say? There is nothing to be gained by saying he did not think Williams was worth a 12.  So if he does not make the trade, he is left taking a player he does not want at 12 (Hamilton?) and the Lions make the same trade for 13 or 14 and still get Williams. 
Same thing happened with the GB trade. GB wanted Watson. KAM did not. Either he makes the trade with GB or GB makes the same trade at the next spot. 
In other words, the only way KAM could prevent the Lions or GB from getting Williams and Watson was to take them himself ad he did not want that.

The Lions trade was a loss in value. We should have got more or given less.
The Packers trade was a gain in value and a good trade - IMO