Another serious question.....

[Vanguard83]

Ok, a Princeton / Stanford grad who worked as a “portfolio manager” on Wall Street....So he’s “academically gifted” and helped people lose their hard earned money investing in the Stock Market...

But I have another question:

How EXACTLY does that “academic skill set / Wall Street experience” translate to football?

Does he read Street & Smiths differently than we do?

He jabs at Spielman’s tactic of trading down, (and I agree frankly), states that 6th & 7th rounders 
generally speaking are not going to hold the jocks of the first three or four rounders......BUT...
The deeper you go in the draft, the greater the odds of NOT making the team or making the final roster. What about THOSE “analytics”?  we trade not once but twice with division rivals - allowing them opportunities to select “arguably better” players.

We fly up & down the draft board “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing” Someone here stated that this draft felt like Kwesi was “learning on the job” (SFVike or Supafreak84 or ?) BINGO.  SHIT.......I dont want a pilot “learning on the job”

Just because a division rival is “The only one on the phone talking to us” doesnt mean you have to deal.
Hang up and make your pick....Chances are that if a division rival WANTS to do the deal....IT DOESNT BENEFIT YOUR FRANCHISE.

So Kwesi’s first experience in pro football was with 49ers in 2013. Thats under a decade folks....
For us that followed the Vikings from inception, the Tarkenton /PPE years, whether you jumped on board with the ‘87’s,the ‘98 ers, or even the “Pants on the Ground” gang.........HELL, THE FANS have more experience than our new GM.

I believe we got good players that can contribute, and time will tell....But Im running out of time. Im not 10 anymore (The last time I saw the Vikings in a Super Bowl)

But then again, I didnt go to Princeton, or work on Wall street, SO AGAIN I ASK.......

How EXACTLY does that particular “skill set” translate to football? (Other than players beating up these geeks in high school?)

[Guest]

Smart people putting football through the analytics prism. Making optimal plays and or selecting players in a draft via historical data/algos/models. 

"What Is Sports Analytics? Sports analytics is the process of plugging statistics into a mathematical model to predict the outcome of a given play or game. Coaches rely on analytics to scout opponents and optimize play calls in game, while front offices use it to prioritize player development."

You can debate whether you believe this concept moves the needle or not. But to answer your serious question, KAM is a very smart guy who believes in analytics as a tool to create success in the NFL, along with some other teams. So the model doesn't care in whom the teams are that you trade with to get the end result. There are no factors in the equation that you are trading with division rivals. The ends justify the means in this model regardless, in theory. My explanation doesn't mean I believe or don't believe in this process....it remains to be seen for the Minnesota Vikings.

[Guest]

Just some additional thoughts on this topic:

• Analytics is only as good as the data you put into it.   Analytics also doesn't take into account the poker aspect of the draft process.  It looks at the hole cards and the community cards and does not take into account the other participant's mindset.  So, basically, once the odds are in your favor, you accept the trade even though with a little bluffing, etc. you could get better value.  
• From a pure fan engagement perspective, this draft was a mess.  Starting with the first round trade that saw lots of our favorite picks slide out of reach, to trading with two divisional rivals, to drafting a reach guard with a very questionable background and now the questions in the press whether the Vikings drafted in this manner to save money.  This draft was really a PR disaster.
• My biggest complaint is that with a top 15 pick you hope to draft someone that is not only an immediate starter but someone that the other teams need to scheme for -- a real difference maker.  If you fall out of the top half of the first round the chance to get such a player diminishes tremendously.  If that calculation is not in Kwesi's model, well, the old adage applies -- garbage in, garbage out.
• I may be incorrect about this, but I believe Kwesi has not yet put his people in place in the scouting department.  I think, with a new GM, this happens after the draft because you can't really start from scratch evaluating college players just a couple months before the draft -- it is a year long (+) proposition.  If that is true, then the draft board is probably reliant very heavily on Kwesi's evaluation of players -- something Vanguard points out it is probably not his forte.
• If we all believe Kwesi will suffer from growing pains and willing to accept that in his first draft, well, then it is a sin to trade a '23 pick when he should do a better job in '23 than in did in '22.  It is throwing good money after bad.  

[Guest]

OK, let me process this answer. (I only have a Masters from CSUSB)
Not saying Im right, but this is just my “old school” football argument....

So, using “measurables” in the case of the COMBINE...height, weight, 40 time, 3 cone agility, wingspan, 5-10-5 time, catch radius,  etc. Personally, I think I would rely on game film more (and I know scouts do). Theres too much love for the COMBINE / PRO DAYS IMO......Seriously, How often does a player run 40 yards straight in a game?

IMO, there are so many other aspects to a player that arent seen “statistically”
an INT for example....a ball can be tipped at LOS, an errant pass, a broken route, WR stumbles OR. a great play by the D Back...The difference here is four picks “statistically”.
Maybe they dont throw to a players side, less opportunities for stats...where does that measure against a player that is being targeted frequently. 

An effective D end isnt just about sacks.....not losing contain, gap discipline, running in the trench, do they funnel the play inside where theres help. A TRULY effective DE you will often see reflected in the LB stats (tackles, TFLs)

Now we use “analytics” to predict a plays outcome...OK....Thats if “everything goes right”
(How often does “everything go right” on each play) Also, youve got every guy on the field hurting, playing through injury, great (or lacking) individual effort, execution, timing, not to mention the inexplicable...situational football, coaching, on and on.

wonder what analytics would say about guys like a John Randle. 

How are the “intangibles” measured? Motor, Moxie, Heart, Endurance, etc.

Thanks guys, trying to “wrap my head” around this type of thinking.  
Im old, and almost cold

[Guest]

@Vanguard83 said:


Thanks guys, trying to “wrap my head” around this type of thinking.  
Im old, and almost cold

lol, hang in there Vanguard! You're asking good questions! 

[Guest]

interesting answers guys - Thanks.  I’m learning

”Ends justifies the means” was a great analogy - lets hope Machiavelli was right.

[Guest]

@Vanguard83 said:
interesting answers guys - Thanks.  I’m learning

”Ends justifies the means” was a great analogy - lets hope Machiavelli was right.

Yep, his meaning with that quote is that you are judged by the results, just like KAM will be. 

[Guest]

These are the same questions I was asking when we hired him and one of the reasons I wasn't on board with the hiring. It's almost the equivilant of hiring Jordan Belfort to run our organization. Super smart guy, super minimal football experience. I think you have to be more than a stats/analytics/numbers guy at the end of the day and have an actual feel for the game. Career analytics guy and ONE YEAR as the VP of football operations in Cleveland. It was a huge roll of the dice for the Wilfs to hand over the organization to some whiz kid who in many cases has less overall football experience then a lot of us on this board. 

[Guest]

You know what I found most interesting the last day or 2?

How KAM responded to questions on the draft...

I dont think he gives a s hit what we think lol! And he was quite convicted and calm vs defensive in any way. 

I sure hope they drag the franchise out of mediocrity. I'm rooting for them all to succeed. 

Now all eyes will be on this dude the rest of the year;

[Guest]

appreciate ALL perspecrives gang, thank you.  Maybe the game that I have decoted my life to understanding has passed me by.

and again although “time will tell”, Im afraid I may not get there with you my friends