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Miscellaneous Thoughts – VikingOracle
#1
  • Sam Bradford Will Have a Big Year:  Why do i know this -- because i have been a Vikings fan for decades.  Think about -- what will cause the Vikings the most off season drama  -- Bradford having a monster year coupled with Teddy being fully healthy.  Think Cunningham taking over for Johnson and Johnson subsequently being traded.  Bradford having a big year would lead to a typical Viking off season of turmoil.
  • Sam Bradford Thoughts:  I have thought about this a while and I think the Vikes are planning to let Bradford leave as a free agent at the end of this year,  If they do so, they can recoup a fourth round draft pick (probably) as compensation (I doubt the Vikes will have a lot of money to sign FAs this next off season to offset the loss of Bradford).  
  • Preseason Flashes: Every season I am reminded that i am just a fan and coaches are coaches for a reason.  This time of year is especially good at humbling me.  Last year at this time I thought Tre Roberson showed enough promise as a CB that the Vikes would not try to sneak him onto the practice squad.   He is not even talked about this year.  Think about the players from prior preseasons who seemed destine to grow into a roster spot and have never developed further.  It is really interesting to me to try to identify low draft picks/free agents who will blossom -- but it is a crap shoot just watching some preseason to see who will develop.  What player on the roster is the next Sendejo or Thielen?  what attributes are necessary to not only show potential one season but to actually develop that potential?   To me, Coley and Bower seem like obvious high upside youngsters.  I had great hope for Tocho but have heard next to nothing and can't recall any plays made by him.
  • SF Game:  I have mixed feeling about how poorly the starters played.  On one hand, I am hoping this causes them to really concentrate on the Saints game (I have a bet with my nephew on this game).  On the other hand, I wonder whether this shows some systemic issue we are not privy to -- maybe a problem that took root last year in the second half.  I hate to see a team sleepwalk through a first half 
  • Players I Have Soured On:  I have been a big fan of Edmond Robinson but he seems out of position too much.  Likewise, I have been unimpressed with Barr this preseason, he seems out of position at times, not to know his assignment or not holding the edge.  Boone seems to lack his usual fire.  Waynes looked horrible yesterday -- very disappointed with him.
  • Players I Like More Now:  I will lump together Price and Exum -- I think they both look like the lights are going on.  Plus, they are good on special teams.  I think it will be fund to watch the two E-boys develop on the offensive life.  Maybe make that the vowel boys and throw in Isidora.  Pretty anyone on the defensive line is worth watching.  Which leads me to my next thought....
  • Vikings and DLineman:  Why are some teams so good at finding and developing good players at one spot and so poor at other spots.  And I don't mean on coaching regime -- I mean historically?  The Vikes have been good since the beginning in finding and developing DLine talent.  Vikes have also been excellent finding and developing centers over the years.  But the Vikes have done poorly with cornerbacks (and may have the best cornerback in his history on the roster right now).   Strange to me that over a ton of different coaches and personnel people, the vikes would be so good in finding quality dlinemen and and centers and struggle finding cornerbacks and quarterbacks.
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#2
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
  • Vikings and DLineman:  Why are some teams so good at finding and developing good players at one spot and so poor at other spots.  And I don't mean on coaching regime -- I mean historically?  The Vikes have been good since the beginning in finding and developing DLine talent.  Vikes have also been excellent finding and developing centers over the years.  But the Vikes have done poorly with cornerbacks (and may have the best cornerback in his history on the roster right now).   Strange to me that over a ton of different coaches and personnel people, the vikes would be so good in finding quality dlinemen and and centers and struggle finding cornerbacks and quarterbacks.
Great write-up as usual. 

One comment on your last thought.  I would say it is more on the coaches/GM.  Case in point, the D-line coach, Andre Patterson has been around for a couple of the great ones.  That isn't coincidence. 

And second point.  Denny Green couldn't draft/develop a guy to save his job. 

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#3
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
  • Sam Bradford Will Have a Big Year:  Why do i know this -- because i have been a Vikings fan for decades.  Think about -- what will cause the Vikings the most off season drama  -- Bradford having a monster year coupled with Teddy being fully healthy.  Think Cunningham taking over for Johnson and Johnson subsequently being traded.  Bradford having a big year would lead to a typical Viking off season of turmoil.
  • Sam Bradford Thoughts:  I have thought about this a while and I think the Vikes are planning to let Bradford leave as a free agent at the end of this year,  If they do so, they can recoup a fourth round draft pick (probably) as compensation (I doubt the Vikes will have a lot of money to sign FAs this next off season to offset the loss of Bradford).  
  • Preseason Flashes: Every season I am reminded that i am just a fan and coaches are coaches for a reason.  This time of year is especially good at humbling me.  Last year at this time I thought Tre Roberson showed enough promise as a CB that the Vikes would not try to sneak him onto the practice squad.   He is not even talked about this year.  Think about the players from prior preseasons who seemed destine to grow into a roster spot and have never developed further.  It is really interesting to me to try to identify low draft picks/free agents who will blossom -- but it is a crap shoot just watching some preseason to see who will develop.  What player on the roster is the next Sendejo or Thielen?  what attributes are necessary to not only show potential one season but to actually develop that potential?   To me, Coley and Bower seem like obvious high upside youngsters.  I had great hope for Tocho but have heard next to nothing and can't recall any plays made by him.
  • SF Game:  I have mixed feeling about how poorly the starters played.  On one hand, I am hoping this causes them to really concentrate on the Saints game (I have a bet with my nephew on this game).  On the other hand, I wonder whether this shows some systemic issue we are not privy to -- maybe a problem that took root last year in the second half.  I hate to see a team sleepwalk through a first half 
  • Players I Have Soured On:  I have been a big fan of Edmond Robinson but he seems out of position too much.  Likewise, I have been unimpressed with Barr this preseason, he seems out of position at times, not to know his assignment or not holding the edge.  Boone seems to lack his usual fire.  Waynes looked horrible yesterday -- very disappointed with him.
  • Players I Like More Now:  I will lump together Price and Exum -- I think they both look like the lights are going on.  Plus, they are good on special teams.  I think it will be fund to watch the two E-boys develop on the offensive life.  Maybe make that the vowel boys and throw in Isidora.  Pretty anyone on the defensive line is worth watching.  Which leads me to my next thought....
  • Vikings and DLineman:  Why are some teams so good at finding and developing good players at one spot and so poor at other spots.  And I don't mean on coaching regime -- I mean historically?  The Vikes have been good since the beginning in finding and developing DLine talent.  Vikes have also been excellent finding and developing centers over the years.  But the Vikes have done poorly with cornerbacks (and may have the best cornerback in his history on the roster right now).   Strange to me that over a ton of different coaches and personnel people, the vikes would be so good in finding quality dlinemen and and centers and struggle finding cornerbacks and quarterbacks.


To me, it looks like Robinson was out of position on that short screen pass that went the distance.  After biting too hard in the SEA game, Robinson holds back in this game and gets caught too far downfield which gave the ball-carrier half the field to run.  He had 4 tackles, but I don't know if I see any improvement from his rookie year.
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#4
Quote: @greediron said:
@VikingOracle said:
  • Vikings and DLineman:  Why are some teams so good at finding and developing good players at one spot and so poor at other spots.  And I don't mean on coaching regime -- I mean historically?  The Vikes have been good since the beginning in finding and developing DLine talent.  Vikes have also been excellent finding and developing centers over the years.  But the Vikes have done poorly with cornerbacks (and may have the best cornerback in his history on the roster right now).   Strange to me that over a ton of different coaches and personnel people, the vikes would be so good in finding quality dlinemen and and centers and struggle finding cornerbacks and quarterbacks.
Great write-up as usual. 

One comment on your last thought.  I would say it is more on the coaches/GM.  Case in point, the D-line coach, Andre Patterson has been around for a couple of the great ones.  That isn't coincidence. 

And second point.  Denny Green couldn't draft/develop a guy to save his job. 

I agree it is more on coaches/GM, but I find it interesting that over the 50+ years of the Vikings, I think the team is most associated with developing great dlinemen.   So, I guess my question is why the Vikes have been so good at developing Dline talent when the coaches and GM have changed during that time.  I would speculate it is because the fan base became to expect great Dline play from the start of the franchise (Purple People Eaters) that it became an expected part of the franchise and became a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

This interested me enough to look at the composition of the Vikings players in the HOF:  4 defensive lineman, 4 offensive lineman (which surprised me), 1 WR, 1 DB and 1 QB.  Not a single linebacker.  Soon there will be another WR and in a few years a RB.
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#5
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
I agree it is more on coaches/GM, but I find it interesting that over the 50+ years of the Vikings, I think the team is most associated with developing great dlinemen.   So, I guess my question is why the Vikes have been so good at developing Dline talent when the coaches and GM have changed during that time.  I would speculate it is because the fan base became to expect great Dline play from the start of the franchise (Purple People Eaters) that it became an expected part of the franchise and became a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

This interested me enough to look at the composition of the Vikings players in the HOF:  4 defensive lineman, 4 offensive lineman (which surprised me), 1 WR, 1 DB and 1 QB.  Not a single linebacker.  Soon there will be another WR and in a few years a RB.
And I think a few D Linemen have been left out.  Who are the ones that are in?  Eller, Page, Doleman and Randle?  Marshall needs to be in.  Allen will likely be in eventually.  Hank Thomas was borderline IMO.  Millard's career was cut short.

O-linemen?  McDaniel, Zimmerman, Tinglehoff and Yary.  Hutch should make it.  Birk? 
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#6
Quote: @greediron said:
@VikingOracle said:
I agree it is more on coaches/GM, but I find it interesting that over the 50+ years of the Vikings, I think the team is most associated with developing great dlinemen.   So, I guess my question is why the Vikes have been so good at developing Dline talent when the coaches and GM have changed during that time.  I would speculate it is because the fan base became to expect great Dline play from the start of the franchise (Purple People Eaters) that it became an expected part of the franchise and became a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

This interested me enough to look at the composition of the Vikings players in the HOF:  4 defensive lineman, 4 offensive lineman (which surprised me), 1 WR, 1 DB and 1 QB.  Not a single linebacker.  Soon there will be another WR and in a few years a RB.
And I think a few D Linemen have been left out.  Who are the ones that are in?  Eller, Page, Doleman and Randle?  Marshall needs to be in.  Allen will likely be in eventually.  Hank Thomas was borderline IMO.  Millard's career was cut short.

O-linemen?  McDaniel, Zimmerman, Tinglehoff and Yary.  Hutch should make it.  Birk? 
That's the thing, the Vikes have had a lot of really good defensive lineman; you named the four HOFers.  I agree Marshall should be in.  Then you have Hank Thomas, Millard and Kevin Williams who all deserve consideration (and Millard would have gotten in absent injury).

I agree Hutch should make it.  I would like to think Birk would make it.
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#7
Forgot KWill.  Pat and Kevin should go in together with a plaque mentioning they aren't related.
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#8

[Image: SamBradford_MV.jpg?fit=960%2C649]Miscellaneous Thoughts – VikingOracle
VikingOracle is a valued  VikeFans.com forum personality and contributor of insight and analysis. Sam Bradford Will Have a Big Year:  Why do I know this? — because I have been a Vikings fan f…

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#9
Thanks for the piece VikingOracle. I share a lot of the same thoughts as far as finding and developing talent in one spot as opposed to another. It's a frustrating thing to witness as a fan. However, when you look around the league at different teams that have historically been known for a dominant this or a dreadful that, I suppose there is identity of the team that plays into it. With the vikings we have that history of the D line that you alluded to and it seems to be something that we always try to maintain, and perhaps to the detriment of other areas of the team. I guess that's a pretty easy one to say though as all teams want to have a dominant D line. But what about Running Back? That's another position that we have typically put a lot of stock into throughout the years.



Anyway I found your last paragraph quite interesting as a thought exercise on the philosophy of the team throughout the years.
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#10
Quote: @greediron said:
One comment on your last thought.  I would say it is more on the coaches/GM.  Case in point, the D-line coach, Andre Patterson has been around for a couple of the great ones.  That isn't coincidence. 

And second point.  Denny Green couldn't draft/develop a guy to save his job. 

I assume you mean defensive linemen specifically; Denny drafted and developed many good players at other positions. But holy crap, during the Green era, NO ONE would have said our franchise was good at finding defensive linemen! Even it he had not picked the infamous Dimitrius Underwood, he chose Derrick Alexander (over Sapp), James Manley, and Michael Boireau - among the teams' all-time worst draft picks. Every year he picked at least one DL in the top two rounds and the best from that entire decade was Chris Hovan. But there were some really bad years when I was a kid and the team was trying to replace the original PPE. Remember Randy Holloway, Duck White, or Doug Martin? Probably not.

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