Quote: @JoDakota said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Spielman goes too imo
In the original piece, Mike, you said this about Zimmer...."the truth is that his teams are just not getting it done despite a very talented roster."
So, Speilman has done his job, building a very talented roster. What more can a GM do? Zim is a yo-yo coach. Wins decently every other year, then fails when us fans get our hopes up. It's frustrating to watch bad starts in our biggest games, especially on the defensive side of the ball. We start so porous, and it takes until halftime to adjust, by then our offense is in a hole.
On the offensive side of the ball, I understand wanting to run the ball more than last year, but do we always have to run right up the gut? Cook has speed, and Rudolph is a good blocker, seems like a run outside once in awhile could be attempted.
The GM hires the coach. Spielman inherited Les Frazier so to me the clock on judging his tenure started ticking the day he hired Zimmer. I give him credit for assembling a relatively talented team but clearly there are weaknesses that persist on the offensive side of the ball.
Unfortunately Rick and Mike tied their fate to Kirk Cousins which is turning out to be a big mistake. My feeling is they will be gone after this season, leaving their replacements to swallow one painful year of Kirk before they can really rebuild things. Drafting the right qb is about to be the biggest question facing the Vikings by far.
If the Vikings draft a QB very high next year, this franchise is going to look extremely attractive to both HC and GM candidates.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
If the Vikings draft a QB very high next year, this franchise is going to look extremely attractive to both HC and GM candidates.
wouldnt it be more attractive if they were going to draft that QB instead of drafting one and then trying to find the GM and HC that want to work with who ever you get?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
If the Vikings draft a QB very high next year, this franchise is going to look extremely attractive to both HC and GM candidates.
wouldnt it be more attractive if they were going to draft that QB instead of drafting one and then trying to find the GM and HC that want to work with who ever you get?
Oh for sure. Definitely. And you know what, maybe that is exactly what the Wilfs will do. I think that would be optimal quite honestly.
But my gut is telling me that the Wilfs are going to give Z and Spielman one more year after this. JMO.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
If the Vikings draft a QB very high next year, this franchise is going to look extremely attractive to both HC and GM candidates.
wouldnt it be more attractive if they were going to draft that QB instead of drafting one and then trying to find the GM and HC that want to work with who ever you get?
Oh for sure. Definitely. And you know what, maybe that is exactly what the Wilfs will do. I think that would be optimal quite honestly.
But my gut is telling me that the Wilfs are going to give Z and Spielman one more year after this. JMO.
I agree, but I still stick with my initial reaction from Monday ( i usually calm down and back off after a day or two) I think they need to get the new GM (if hes available) ASAP, give him a few weeks to try and work some deals for pieces that he doesnt think work with his plans to reload the team around a new QB and who ever else he decides to bring in. Leave the coaching staff alone until year end and then make those decisions, but give him a month (3 weeks now) to possibly move a player or two to create cap space for next year as well as possibly add some draft picks.
I dont hate RS like some do, I just think he has gotten this team as far as he can and unfortunately that is not good enough.
I do though suspect you are right, barring a complete collapse RS and Zim will get a 1 year extension, which will only extend the agony and put whats left our once dominant defense even a year further removed from their prime which will only make the new GMs job even more difficult. it would be nice if he could start his reload with a frame work of veterans in place to build around.
Zimmer has to go. It's the only way a new QB (and Kicker) can come in and not get micromanaged into being a Game Manager who doesn't make mistakes.
More likely? Wilfs keep them and Teddy gets signed back to dink and dunk and not lose games.
That's a joke, but I'm still struggling to understand why Zimmer and Rick brought in a guy who likes to sling the rock and tried to reprogram him into being a Game Manger. Such a horrible decision and one that should be a fireable offense.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Zimmer has to go. It's the only way a new QB (and Kicker) can come in and not get micromanaged into being a Game Manager who doesn't make mistakes.
More likely? Wilfs keep them and Teddy gets signed back to dink and dunk and not lose games.
That's a joke, but I'm still struggling to understand why Zimmer and Rick brought in a guy who likes to sling the rock and tried to reprogram him into being a Game Manger. Such a horrible decision and one that should be a fireable offense.
Sadly, I think this is the right move and one that Spielman will make to save his own job.
But, 4 OCs and 4 new systems in 4 years is too much for any offense. What other team has done this ever and were successful in the playoffs.
I believe, and I could be wrong (I often am), that is why the receivers are upset and even Rudolph made mention of him doing a lot of blocking.
These players are pissed because the Vikings cannot make up their minds and Zimmer wants an old school offense.
These players see other team like the Chiefs, Rams, Eagles, etc. running all kinds of plays to get the skill players the ball.
Now it falls on Cousins to be perfect when he gets his opportunities here and there.
Whatever they do, they need a system and coaches on offense that they will stick with.
If we lose to the Giants I could see Spielman firing Zimmer and promoting Kubiak or Stafanski and see what happens the rest of the way
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
It's more than 1 game, it's his body of work.
Quote: @Bolstad79 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
It's more than 1 game, it's his body of work.
Exactly. This SHOULD be about an overall performance.
Jesus H. Christ, I think it’s OK to judge a man in 2019 if he’s been on the job since 2006, isn’t it?
13+ seasons with 3 HC’s and God knows how many OC’s, DC’s, QB’s, K’s, P’s, executive secretaries, etc.
I think that 13 seasons and a grand total of TWO playoff wins, EIGHT YEARS apart by the way, constitutes a body of work that sucks donkey balls.....or MoronBalls, tomaytow/tomahtah.
Anyone that considers THAT production anything other than SHIT is just a maroonbell tingling d-bag.
FACT : There has NEVER been a more abysmal 14 year playoff stretch in the Vikings entire history than what we are currently experiencing. Don’t take my word for it, pull up the Vikings’ history yourself and check it out.
FACT: Any team that WINS a Super Bowl must win at LEAST 3 CONSECUTIVE playoff games (at least 1 on the road) , or FOUR CONSECUTIVE playoff games as a wildcard, meaning all 4 on the road (typically)
FACT : The last time ANY Vikings team has managed at least TWO consecutive playoff wins? Burnsie and his 1987 squad. Every single so called “great” Vikings team since then, 32 fucking years ago, has FAILED to match that accomplishment. So much for this bullshit narrative that the Vikings are a “great” championship organization. You CAN NOT claim to be a great team when your single playoff wins occur 8 YEARS apart.
FACT : This urban legend of the Vikings having the most talented roster being dragged down by coaching (and I’ve been reading this horse-hockey for the past 4 years at least) is 100% BULLSHIT. How much team NON -Success in the postseason does it take for fans to reach this obvious conclusion?
I’m happy to give you multiple examples of pretty mediocre HC’s who have at least MADE it to a Super Bowl, and sometimes WON a Super Bowl : Jim Fassel, BOTH Harbaugh Brothers, Dan Quinn, Barry Switzer, Jon Gruden, Brian Billick, Mike Tomlin, Bobby Ross. That’s just off the top of my head. I’ll pull up more mediocre names that have accomplished more with less. All of these coaches at least WON a Conference Championship. Did ALL of these HC’s have the “bestest” rosters? Uhhh, NO.
If Micky and Dicky are truly SOOOOO much better than their competitors, I would expect more tangible results with such a “loaded” roster. Vikings fans can’t pull their usual “heads I win, tails you lose” approach” in explaining away the 80% failure rate to win a playoff for ol’ Micky (1 for 5, soon to be 1 for 6) or the 85% failure rate for Dicky (2 for 13, soon to be 2 for 14).
And if the Vikings truly had the best roster, they would NOT shit the bed in big games as consistently as they have. Racking up stats against bottom-feeder teams during victories and padding bull shit stats in the 4th qtr of a loss are 2 totally different animals. .
FACT : A “Comeback” is when a team comes back from a significant deficit, and then WINS. If a team manages to struggle to make the final point differential shrink from double digits to single digits? There IS a term for that outcome.....it’s called a LOSS.
FACT : A 31 point blowout, humiliating, atrocious loss in a Conference Championship game is NOT 1 game away from a SB.....it’s 32 fucking points away from a Super Bowl. PERIOD.
I have to admit, the fact that a 2-2 start to this season is making Vikings fans question the BIG picture (i.e., who is the LONE common denominator since the Wilfs bought the team) is making me laugh.
This dude, or should I say “Saint”, should have been out the door with Childress in 2010. I have been consistent in this opinion since then. What would be the worst outcome if Schpielman went back to the media on 2010? We would have been deprived of that lone home miracle playoff win 8 years later. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.
Would things have been different in those years? Sure, all it would take is zero playoff wins to be worse, 1 to tie an 2 to exceed it. NOT THAT difficult.
P.S. If the reference from a previous poster about “hating” Dicky was directed at me? Wrong. Never said I hated the dude, simply pointed out his teams’ undeniable mediocrity. I guess facts like Dicky’s actual W/L record causes discomfort to Ryckophants!
PEACE
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