Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to see how this plays out. 2-2 (even though the 2 Ws came against cream-puff teams) is too early to make a decision. Besides, we SHOULD have beaten GB (on the road) if only KS hadn't called for a play-action pass... and Cousins hadn't then thrown an INT. If we had just run the ball, we (probably?) had won that game. Or, if Cousins hadn't thrown that INT. Either way, we are almost 3-1... with our only loss coming at a place that we never win.
But what I saw on Sunday certainly does make it worth discussing, whether or not we're a Super Bowl team... or a pretender that gets past bad teams but can't win vs. good teams.
What, you don't want to dismantle the entire organization after one crap game?
The biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. Fix that. If he's not permanently damaged. The next biggest problem is pass protection. That is what it is but I expect it to improve as Bradbury matures and Stefanski figures out different ways to mitigate that weakness. Still, Cousins plays well and we're likely 4-0.
Zimmer talk is crazy. I have big problems with his game prep, but he's still among the best 6 to 10 coaches in the league IMO. Be stupid to jettison him unless you were to stumble upon an obvious "upgrade" hiding under a rock. And even then, be careful what you wish for.
Spielman talk is BATSHIT crazy. Jersey-level stupid. There's probably not a person in the org more responsible for giving this team the talent it has. Keep in mind, THAT'S why we're all frustrated. If this team sucked and we played like that, it would be one thing. But this is one of the more talented rosters in the NFL. We expect more precisely becaue we're talented--because we have Thielen and Diggs and Cook and Hunter and Griffen and Kendricks and Barr and Rhodes and Harry. This team hasn't been this stacked in its entire existence.
Chicago had BACK UPS in the lineup everywhere and still kicked our asses. That isn't Spielman's fault. Fix the PROBLEM. Don't fix what ain't broken.
No franchise QB and ignoring the OL for as long as it was is enough for me to say see ya senor rick. the offense is like a merry go round that keeps bringing the same shit back around because all thats been done has been reactionary. get in front of a problem and stay in front of it.
LOL. Yeah, good luck with that.
point taken, I just am still pissed that they forgot OL for nearly a decade with him in the GM chair.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
Beloved by fans, and reportedly by players (who aren’t kickers) the truth is that his teams are just not getting it done despite a very talented roster. in two road games this year his team has looked utterly clueless taking the field. The defense is the football version of Joe Mauer at the plate.... Waiting halfway through the at bat to take a swing. Watching what the opposing offense is going to do usually resulting in putting his own offense in a hole. The inexplicable clock management continues, ruined kicker and special teams disasters, and a whole host of problems that a team like this shouldn’t have.
Maybe running a 1970’s style team in the modern era isn’t genius? Maybe it is holding this team back.
It is frustrating watching this team spin its wheels, and watching pregame videos about how they are “learning to be champions” or whatever they are calling it.
In my opinion it is time for Zimmer to be shown the door.
i disagree but there is plenty of blame to go around and some of that is certainly on Zim. I am frustrated with his conservative calls and plan on both sides of the ball against Chicago, but that D is badass and Mack lived up to his game-wrecker label.
Even though i didnt like the game plan or the adjustments that much, If Harris doesnt negate a turnover and Diggs holds on to the @&$! ball, it would likely habe been a down to the wire game.
We lost to two playoff teams on the road. Its still early. There is still alot of time to right this ship
Quote: @medaille said:
I’m not ready to jump ship yet. I think he’s clearly a top 10 coach over his
tenure in the league. His defense is consistently
in the top 5. I think he’s been
hamstrung by lack of OC, OL and QB talent, seemingly having almost as many of
each as we have seasons. I would like to
see what the offense looks like with a second year in the system. I’m not sure it’s fair to start judging so
hard after just 4 games in a new system and against the league’s top defense.
Cousins is what he is, but I’d like to see how he performs
if playcalling and the OLine improve as the year goes on.
If our OLine is not top 20 in both pass blocking and run
blocking in 2020 or if we don’t draft a QB, I would consider moving on. The chance of us getting a better coach than
Zimmer are pretty slim. Most likely we’ll
have another 2-3 bad coaches over 10-15 years before finding another guy that’s
Zimmer’s caliber. I’m just in no hurry when the odds of getting
worse are so much higher than the odds of getting better. I also think Zimmer over time has figured out
a lot of the teams problems and fixed them.
Bingo. If he is top 10, then no way you look to blow it up. And you make a great point about year 2 of an OC. Is it Zim's fault our one good OC got a head coaching job?
And the whole Norv thing shows that Zimmer is willing to admit a fault and make a change. Norv wasn't cutting it, so he brought in Shurmur and Norv finally fell on his sword and left. Looking at our offense, I doubt we have to worry about Stef getting hired anywhere next year. And my hope is that he starts to hit his stride late this year and our offense is ready to keep up with our D for the playoffs.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ medaille said:
I’m not ready to jump ship yet. I think he’s clearly a top 10 coach over his
tenure in the league. His defense is consistently
in the top 5. I think he’s been
hamstrung by lack of OC, OL and QB talent, seemingly having almost as many of
each as we have seasons. I would like to
see what the offense looks like with a second year in the system. I’m not sure it’s fair to start judging so
hard after just 4 games in a new system and against the league’s top defense.
Cousins is what he is, but I’d like to see how he performs
if playcalling and the OLine improve as the year goes on.
If our OLine is not top 20 in both pass blocking and run
blocking in 2020 or if we don’t draft a QB, I would consider moving on. The chance of us getting a better coach than
Zimmer are pretty slim. Most likely we’ll
have another 2-3 bad coaches over 10-15 years before finding another guy that’s
Zimmer’s caliber. I’m just in no hurry when the odds of getting
worse are so much higher than the odds of getting better. I also think Zimmer over time has figured out
a lot of the teams problems and fixed them.
Bingo. If he is top 10, then no way you look to blow it up. And you make a great point about year 2 of an OC. Is it Zim's fault our one good OC got a head coaching job?
And the whole Norv thing shows that Zimmer is willing to admit a fault and make a change. Norv wasn't cutting it, so he brought in Shurmur and Norv finally fell on his sword and left. Looking at our offense, I doubt we have to worry about Stef getting hired anywhere next year. And my hope is that he starts to hit his stride late this year and our offense is ready to keep up with our D for the playoffs.
I dont think that O is going to hit any strides with Zims desired approach. Zimmer needs to let Stef or Kubiak or who ever is on that side of the ball handle things. Like others have pointed out, KC was killing it early last year, the team stumbled a bit and Zim got all "run the ball all the time" and thats when shit went to hell with the O. IMO Zim can be a good/great HC and not be overly involved with the offense.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ medaille said:
I’m not ready to jump ship yet. I think he’s clearly a top 10 coach over his
tenure in the league. His defense is consistently
in the top 5. I think he’s been
hamstrung by lack of OC, OL and QB talent, seemingly having almost as many of
each as we have seasons. I would like to
see what the offense looks like with a second year in the system. I’m not sure it’s fair to start judging so
hard after just 4 games in a new system and against the league’s top defense.
Cousins is what he is, but I’d like to see how he performs
if playcalling and the OLine improve as the year goes on.
If our OLine is not top 20 in both pass blocking and run
blocking in 2020 or if we don’t draft a QB, I would consider moving on. The chance of us getting a better coach than
Zimmer are pretty slim. Most likely we’ll
have another 2-3 bad coaches over 10-15 years before finding another guy that’s
Zimmer’s caliber. I’m just in no hurry when the odds of getting
worse are so much higher than the odds of getting better. I also think Zimmer over time has figured out
a lot of the teams problems and fixed them.
Bingo. If he is top 10, then no way you look to blow it up. And you make a great point about year 2 of an OC. Is it Zim's fault our one good OC got a head coaching job?
And the whole Norv thing shows that Zimmer is willing to admit a fault and make a change. Norv wasn't cutting it, so he brought in Shurmur and Norv finally fell on his sword and left. Looking at our offense, I doubt we have to worry about Stef getting hired anywhere next year. And my hope is that he starts to hit his stride late this year and our offense is ready to keep up with our D for the playoffs.
I dont think that O is going to hit any strides with Zims desired approach. Zimmer needs to let Stef or Kubiak or who ever is on that side of the ball handle things. Like others have pointed out, KC was killing it early last year, the team stumbled a bit and Zim got all "run the ball all the time" and thats when shit went to hell with the O. IMO Zim can be a good/great HC and not be overly involved with the offense.
So is Zimmer at fault for last years offensive struggles now? Seems like quite a reach to me. Don't think we ever went into "run the ball all the time" last year. We couldn't. Listen to the players, it was a scheme issue last year. And once defenses realized we couldn't run, they focused on limiting cousins. And with our protection issues, it went to short passes, and then the defenses took that away. Saying this is Zimmer's fault because he wants a strong run game is just bizarre IMO.
The criticism used to be that Zimmer ignored the offense and that hurt their feelings. Now he is too critical and that hurts their feelings. I think Zimmer hired Kubiak to help Stef learn the ropes and put a great offensive scheme in place. I doubt Zimmer spends much time in offensive meetings overruling his offensive coaches.
he is not a bad coach and i have been frustrated with him and approach many times. i think he needs to step back and let the offensive coaches coach and give up defensive play calling. gm should have more input on how the team is structured. It has too much of zim’s finger prints on it.
Really nothing will change with this franchise until we get some luck and actually land a franchise qb.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ medaille said:
I’m not ready to jump ship yet. I think he’s clearly a top 10 coach over his
tenure in the league. His defense is consistently
in the top 5. I think he’s been
hamstrung by lack of OC, OL and QB talent, seemingly having almost as many of
each as we have seasons. I would like to
see what the offense looks like with a second year in the system. I’m not sure it’s fair to start judging so
hard after just 4 games in a new system and against the league’s top defense.
Cousins is what he is, but I’d like to see how he performs
if playcalling and the OLine improve as the year goes on.
If our OLine is not top 20 in both pass blocking and run
blocking in 2020 or if we don’t draft a QB, I would consider moving on. The chance of us getting a better coach than
Zimmer are pretty slim. Most likely we’ll
have another 2-3 bad coaches over 10-15 years before finding another guy that’s
Zimmer’s caliber. I’m just in no hurry when the odds of getting
worse are so much higher than the odds of getting better. I also think Zimmer over time has figured out
a lot of the teams problems and fixed them.
Bingo. If he is top 10, then no way you look to blow it up. And you make a great point about year 2 of an OC. Is it Zim's fault our one good OC got a head coaching job?
And the whole Norv thing shows that Zimmer is willing to admit a fault and make a change. Norv wasn't cutting it, so he brought in Shurmur and Norv finally fell on his sword and left. Looking at our offense, I doubt we have to worry about Stef getting hired anywhere next year. And my hope is that he starts to hit his stride late this year and our offense is ready to keep up with our D for the playoffs.
I dont think that O is going to hit any strides with Zims desired approach. Zimmer needs to let Stef or Kubiak or who ever is on that side of the ball handle things. Like others have pointed out, KC was killing it early last year, the team stumbled a bit and Zim got all "run the ball all the time" and thats when shit went to hell with the O. IMO Zim can be a good/great HC and not be overly involved with the offense.
So is Zimmer at fault for last years offensive struggles now? Seems like quite a reach to me. Don't think we ever went into "run the ball all the time" last year. We couldn't. Listen to the players, it was a scheme issue last year. And once defenses realized we couldn't run, they focused on limiting cousins. And with our protection issues, it went to short passes, and then the defenses took that away. Saying this is Zimmer's fault because he wants a strong run game is just bizarre IMO.
The criticism used to be that Zimmer ignored the offense and that hurt their feelings. Now he is too critical and that hurts their feelings. I think Zimmer hired Kubiak to help Stef learn the ropes and put a great offensive scheme in place. I doubt Zimmer spends much time in offensive meetings overruling his offensive coaches.
I never said anything was all anybodies fault, i said it was once the O stumbled after starting g really strong, but at the time he did say he was getting more involved with the O and it went south from there. It was pretty widely reported that Zimmer and flipper had issues over the amount of run game that Zimmer wanted. Flipper was to far pass, but zimmer has even joked that he would run it every play if he could.
I see 4 new OCs and systems in 4 years as a very very bad sign.Norv Turner who was very instrumental in the drafting of Teddy left after 7 games because he could no longer work with Zimmer. That is bad. Very bad.Shurmur managed to stay for a season and got a HC gig.JDF never was mentored my Zimmer which is most disappointing.They went out and hired him and should have known what kind of game he would want to call.Why fire him with 3 games left?That is NOT being a mentor.
Now Zimmer wants to run a dinosaur offense to protect his precious defense.They should run an offense like the Steelers did when they had Bell.Bell ran it and caught it and Cook can do the same. I think.
As for his defense, well, it may be top 10 in this stat or that stat but the only stat that matters to me is how they do in must win games.
The last 2 years they got smacked 38-7 by Nick Foles and then let the Bears run 37 times for 167 yards.
Many posters will say but they only allowed this many points to the Bears and the offense did not do it's job.
If any of those same posters truly believed the offense would do anything against the Bears in that final game last year, after seeing the first game, then I am sorry to say it but they are delusional.
The offense did manage to get it to 13-10 with about 1 to 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.
The vaunted Zimmer defense, top 10 in numerous categories throughout the season, proceeded to allow a 16 play 75 yard drive that took 9 minutes and resulted in a TD and a 2 PT conversion that all but sealed the game AND season.
News flash. If your top ranked defense does not show up when all the marbles are on the line then they are NOT a top defense.
I think Zimmer fails to have his defense ready at the start of games (and especially after a bye) and fails to have them play their best in must win games.
I think he meddles with the offense too much and now the OCs are afraid to call what they really want.
Cousins is afraid to take chances.
Does Zimmer need to go? Not sure.
I would not mind demoting him to DC and hiring a different HC.
Okay, I don't get this. Last year wasn't that long ago. Supposedly, this is now Zimmer's offense (it's not), but let's see the scoring difference between the two years after 4 games.
2018
Record: 1-2-1
Offensive points: 83 (there was also a pick six by the defense)
Points against: 110
2019
Record: 2-2
Offensive points: 84
Points against: 63
So, this running offense that is supposedly worse this year scores more points and, imo, allowed the defense to hold the opponent to less points because of ball control. But whatever, I guess this year is worse.
The passing "attack" last year is an illusion.
On Chicago's first drive of the game Sunday, the bears had 14 plays for 75 yards and a touchdown and ran 7:16 off the clock. The only play that had negative yards on that drive was a false penalty.
How many 1st and 2nd round picks are starting on the defense?
How many 3+ year veterans of this defense started Sunday?
Just how great is Zimmer's defense? Or should it be : How is Zimmer's defense great?
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