Quote: @savannahskol said:
So....you were saying?
Quote:
Ready for it? I'll say I don't know enough about it, on its face. I read that above, and taking all of that at face value, that certainly doesn't look great considering the latest news.
However, since we'll be at a stalemate over one news source, here's a recap that pulls from many:
Quote:Since 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general had been investigating oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the oil and natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption.[20] In 2014, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings.[21] In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[22] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[20]
In March 2016, Joe Biden threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that if he did not fire Shokin, that the US would hold back its $1 billion in loan guarantees. "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."[23] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament later that month.
Shokin claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.[24][25][26][27] However, Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016 citing corruption in the office, provided documents to Bloomberg News indicating that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.[28] Hunter Biden's ties to Burisma Holdings was criticized as a conflict of interest in a New York Times editorial, though Amos Hochstein has claimed to have never seen coordination between Joe Biden and his son on the matter.[29][26]
Read: Shokin was dirty. Also, where's that Manafort guy lately? That upstanding guy we went after and that Trump cozied up with? OH YEAH! PRISON!
So yeah, these are certainly similar, but they're far from equal. Manafort wasn't running for office, Hunter Biden was a private citizen, and currently Joe Biden IS running for office.
I will concede I don't know enough about either of these topics to make an adequate comparison, but I'd wager you don't either. I'll leave that to the journalists and authors that spend months and years painstakingly researching these topics. And from them, there's a reason "The Biden Connection" continuously gets ignored... because there's nothing there. But leave it to Fox News to grab a handful of facts and once again excuse Trump's behavior with, "but Obama..."
Quote: @savannahskol said:
gotta wonder what next weeks entertainment will be.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
can somebody actually get back to me when something happens for real... either side? so far we have liars calling liars liars and using bull shit to support their lies. ( not the posters here, the media and the politicians they cover) the major news stories that are being spun from unsubstantiated rumors and half truths is nauseating. and this goes for both sides. its really a damn shame that I honestly cant name one source that I could go to for a no BS unspun presentation of the facts and only the proven facts.
Fair enough, but may I help?
For a source, please find the transcript, Trump himself admitting to do this, and then you can read the official whistleblower report which substantiates everything I've been saying: that Trump has colluded with a foreign government to try and influence an election.
That is 100% irrefutable fact. JUST READ THE ACTUAL DOCUMENTS.
I know he said it, but I am waiting until all the facts of the situation are revealed. He is hardly the first elected official to use their power to affect a pending election.
That's irrelevant. None of it is right, and as I said above, if a Democrat got caught like this, I'd have the same reaction.
as far as that being a foreign govt or a domestic source... does it really matter? an abuse of power is an abuse of power. frankly I am more concerned about those abuses that result in gains for those foreign govts.
Well you just answered your own question. It does matter, because it potentially gives those governments leverage over ours. You don't ask favors behind closed doors, ESPECIALLY to countries like Ukraine.
here trump was (wrongly) threatening to withhold money that was promised, now that wasnt right, but it doesnt really hurt our country. In the past there have been instances where the likely payouts/favors were not congressionally approved and were made.
It absolutely has all the potential in the world to hurt our country because it could sway an election. Scenario: Ukraine investigates Biden... that gets made public. Just that alone - an investigation - would be enough for Americans to go "whoa, wait a minute." And then a kneejerk reaction would sway their vote.
And again, the past is the past. If that were exposed that anybody else did it, I'd be against that as well.
its really hard for me to get all frothy over any of it anymore after how some transgressions hardly raise an eyebrow and the next ones create an earth quake.... just depends on who did it and how hard anybody wants to dig to discredit that person. its all a fucking joke.
Perhaps it is. But the fact the WH knows it's wrong enough that they went out of their way to hide it (and apparently have hidden many other transcripts on that secret server) tells us something. What did Trump and Putin discuss without any US officials behind closed doors (where he physically took the notes away from our translator afterwards)?
The trail of breadcrumbs is never-ending on this one. And now we have cold, hard irrefutable fact... something that a lot of the GOP is having to grapple with.
Once again, if Obama had done it... something tells me this board would literally be chanting "lock him up."
i am sure he did similar and nothing became of it, some I am kind of....meh any more when anybody does this shit.
it doesnt matter who is in office, the play book they follow is the same, its just who is going to be outraged depends on the color of the presidents tie. its your turn to be pissed at the world and in 2 years or 6 years, it will be somebody elses turn again. I am just to the point of knowing that my guy isnt any worse than your guy and vice versa. they all suck in one way or another.
On that, we'll disagree. Trump is worse than ALL of them. Worse than Nixon even.
That's where my fervor comes from. It's not D or R, it's incredibly corrupt, incredibly stupid, and most-likely slipping into some kind of mental illness/dementia. He's not a well man. He's dangerous, whether he intends to be or not.
in your opinion...
as a human I dont think to much of the guy, but as a politician I think he fits right in. as a president...well thats really up to how your view of whats best for America is. I tend to disagree that he is crippling the middle class. I fancy myself as middle class and honestly am much more comfortable with our situation now than 5 years ago.
Does he just not have the capacity to learn?
Trump just asked the NRA through Wayne Lapierre to finance his impeachment defense. In return Lapierre asked for there to be no gun legislation in return.... So again Quid Pro Quo. WTF man?
JFC..... Wake up people!
Quote:NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals?sc=tw
The National Rifle Association acted as a "foreign asset" for Russia in the period leading up to the 2016 election, according to a new investigation unveiled Friday by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon.
Drawing on contemporaneous emails and private interviews, an 18-month probe by the Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff found that the NRA underwrote political access for Russian nationals Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin more than previously known — even though the two had declared their ties to the Kremlin.
The report, available here, also describes how closely the gun rights group was involved with organizing a 2015 visit by some of its leaders to Moscow.
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6432520-The-NRA-Russia-How-a-Tax-Exempt-Organization
Then-NRA vice president Pete Brownell, who would later become NRA president, was enticed to visit Russia with the promise of personal business opportunities — and the NRA covered a portion of the trip's costs.
The conclusions of the Senate investigation could have legal implications for the NRA, Wyden says.
Tax-exempt organizations are barred from using funds for the personal benefit of its officials, or for actions significantly outside their stated missions. The revelations in the Senate report raise questions about whether the NRA could face civil penalties or the loss of its tax-exempt status.
Attorneys general in the state of New York and the District of Columbia are also conducting separate probes into alleged wrongdoing at the gun rights organization. These probes have a broader scope than the Senate report, which focuses on Russia.
Kremlin links were clear
The 77-page Senate report centers on Butina — a convicted Russian agent now in federal prison — and Torshin, a former Russian government official who is now sanctioned by the United States.
The report indicates that top NRA officials were aware of Butina and Torshin's links with the Kremlin even as they sought to work more closely together under the banner of gun rights.
In an email later circulated to two senior NRA staff members, Butina wrote that a purpose of the 2015 Moscow trip was that "many powerful figures in the Kremlin are counting on Torshin to prove his American connections" by showing he could bring prominent NRA officials to Russia.
At another point, Butina suggested to participants on the 2015 NRA trip to Russia that she might be able to set up a meeting between them and President Vladimir Putin, referring to him as "Russia's highest leader."
Oh Savannah.
"But Obama!!"
You might as well bring up Hillary's emails too.
Obama had several agencies involved in an official capacity to rid Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor in Shokin. This removal request had the backing of the UK, Germany, the U.N. and several other western country allies as Shokin was uncooperative in investigating and prosecuting corruption with Ukrainian and Russian elites with our allies - that's why they withheld aid.
Compared with Trump: withholding aid asking leaders of another country for a favor: to re-launch another investigation into his political enemy, USING HIS PERSONAL ATTORNEY??? Because then there's no official recording of their conversations because Giuliani has no position at the White House. Shady as fuck and you know it.
Oh and look who else he's directed the Ukrainian President to contact about investigating Biden - that totally "neutral" Attorney General Barr you insist would never dare interject bias into protecting Trump. And yet ... Barr has been caught up in yet another scandal playing a key role in protecting Trump like a good lapdog, just like he promised before he was hired.
I'm sure all of this is just pure coincidence to you ... but might I suggest you catch that truck full of turnips?
And yet you keep deflecting - "What about Biden? What about Obama?"
Well who gives a fuck about them, I'm sick of your pathetic "whataboutisms" - why not discuss WHAT ABOUT TRUMP??? Can you??
At some point you're going to have to face the music ... what Trump did was illegal, immoral, unethical, and anti-American. We will see if Senate Republicans have the sack to impeach him, but I suspect there are some who have had it with his shit and will vote to remove.
Now why would he want to do that????
Quote:White House restricted access to Trump's calls with Putin and Saudi crown prince
[link:https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/27/politics/white-house-restricted-trump-calls-putin-saudi/index.html|
Washington (CNN)White House efforts to limit access to President Donald Trump's conversations with foreign leaders extended to phone calls with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Russian leader Vladimir Putin, according to people familiar with the matter.
Those calls -- both with leaders who maintain controversial relationships with Trump -- were among the presidential conversations that aides took remarkable steps to keep from becoming public.
In the case of Trump's call with Prince Mohammed, officials who ordinarily would have been given access to a rough transcript of the conversation never saw one, according to one of the sources. Instead, a transcript was never circulated at all, which the source said was highly unusual, particularly after a high-profile conversation.
The call - which the person said contained no especially sensitive national security secrets -- came as the White House was confronting the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, which US intelligence assessments said came at the hand of the Saudi government.
With Putin, access to the transcript of at least one of Trump's conversations was also tightly restricted, according to a former Trump administration official.
Like I said I don’t know if impeachment goes anywhere but this guy isn’t good for the country. if you can’t see how this turd is soaking us for his own interests you are completely blind. I don’t gove two squats about who or what may have done what before. Two wrongs don’t make a right and there isn’t anything right about donald trump and this administration.
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