Quote: @BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
My take on this whole thing is that Sloter long ago earned the right to get some looks with the 2s, along with the 5 or 6 other 3rd string QBs in the NFL who got that same opportunity this preseason. But I'm also fine if the coaching staff feels more comfortable with Mannion as the backup. Where I'm NOT fine is when we hear talk like this from Zimmer about the very real possibility of keeping only 2 QBs....and Sloter obviously being the odd man out.
As incredibly difficult as it is to find capable, starting, franchise QBs in this league--God knows, there are teams who have been at it for decades, the Vikings might be one of them--you can't just let a guy like this go without investigating thoroughly what you have. And that investigation can't be limited to just practices.
Now, IF he had gone in with the 2's or 1's and showed us all that he couldn't play at the same level, fine. But he hasn't had that opportunity. So right now what we have is a QB who doesn't play well in practice when his rep comes every 45 minutes, but when the lights go on and he's allowed to find a rhythm, he lights it up like nothing we've ever seen before. His performance--accuracy, mobility, the IT factor, how he energizes the team, etc--hasn't just been good, it's been unprecedented.
If you let a guy like that hit the streets before you know for certain that he's NOT a "gamer" that you happened to stumble upon for FREE in the mold of Kurt Warner or Tony Romo or Tom Brady or whoever, you might just be be making a blunder that this franchise could regret for decades. Is keeping that 4th TE or 5th CB, who may not even be playing 2 years from now, worth missing out on that possibility? No, it's not.
If we cut Sloter, there will obviously be a fan and media backlash. But knowing Zimmer's adversarial relationship with both, it would not surprise me at all to see him do it just to spite them.
Maroon, I agree with this assessment except for the last line. I highly doubt Zimmer is going to cut anyone to spite the fans and/or media. Maybe you were being sarcastic, maybe not, but I find the notion ridiculous.
No, I wasn't being sarcastic. But do I believe that will happen? Of course not. I'll just say this: if you've followed his career--even before the Vikings, you know as well as I do that he hates being 2nd guessed. He thinks the media, the fans, players who question him, and player evaluation groups like PFF, are idiots and he loves to tell them so.
Now, of course, he's mostly right about that. But THAT kind of attitude is what inspired his comments about Sloter, which you have to admit were pretty unusual. You could hear it in his tone: his comments were not directed at Sloter as much as they were the media DARING to wonder if Sloter deserved more reps...as if he'd heard it before...as if, perhaps, someone in the Vikings organization had also suggested it. We'll never know. But....he's a flawed human. It seems many want to anoint him as a person incapable of making a mistake or being wrong. Zimmer says it. I believe it. That settles it.
It's been amusing to watch. Everyone has been impressed with Kyle Sloter. Until Mike Zimmer gets in front of the media and says he has to improve a few things, which of course he does (as does Mannion and, oh yeah, one other highly paid QB on the team). And then suddenly everyone bends the knee and says "oh yeah, what Sloter is doing is not impressive. He sucks in practice cuz Zimmer says so. And clearly he's benefiting from playing against the 3's. Hail Zimmer..." even though they can't point to a single mistake of consequence, or name an opposing player who was different when the Vikings switched from Mannion to Sloter.
It would be one thing if Sloter had done this in three or four preseason games. To have done it in 11 straight (and counting) is something the team would be wise to take a closer look at. Here's the shocking thing: We still don't know, NOR DOES MIKE ZIMMER KNOW BECAUSE HE HASN'T BEEN TESTED WITH THE 2'S, whether or not Kyle Sloter is one of those players who's just a "gamer"--a player who just doesn't do well in practice, but plays well in the heat and rhythm of game situations. If you don't think "gamers" exist, you've never played before.
Apparently, coaches have told him to have less of a "gunslinger" mentality--to operate "within the offense." I find that comment interesting, for one, about a player who has yet to turn the ball over in 11 games. And alarming, for another. Are the Vikings so stupid they would take a race horse and turn him into a show pony because their offense is just so proven and awesome and rigid it can't tolerate any gunslingery? There was another gunslinger who once famously asked his backup QB what a nickel defense was. Had no clue. Never heard of it. That "gamer" went on to a Super Bowl, 3 MVPs and 11 Pro Bowls.
All that said, I fully expect Zimmer to make the right decision.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Tom Brady did backup Drew Bledsoe
Kramer was Tark's backup.
Steve Young backed up Montana
Rodgers was #2 to Favre
Mahomes backed up Alex Smith
I don't think it's unusual to have a developing young QB be the #2. Especially if he's better than all the other QBs, exept the starter.
Quote: @HappyViking said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Tom Brady did backup Drew Bledsoe
Kramer was Tark's backup.
Steve Young backed up Montana
Rodgers was #2 to Favre
Mahomes backed up Alex Smith
I don't think it's unusual to have a developing young QB be the #2. Especially if he's better than all the other QBs, exept the starter.
Look around the League now and historically. The majority of teams, and I'd wager not a small one either, have journeymen type QBs instead of young, developing guys.
Bill.Bellicheat has a journeyman backing up Brady instead of the next JG.
This is not rocket science. Veteran QBs help even future HOF QBs with preparation. It's why so many teams value that over developing a younger guy who likely doesn't help your Starter in any way.
And I'm tired of this narrative about that being the QB Coaches job. Clearly, Owners, GMs, HCs and OCs disagree that is the sole purview if the QB Coach or you wouldn't see such a large proliferation of journeyman QBs in the League year after year after year.
The other thing to think about is the point brought up about 3 OCs in 3 years. The kid took maybe the least amount of college snaps of any QB prospect in recent memory AND is learning yet another system. Might not be the best time to throw him out against stiffer competition until he's mastered it.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Tom Brady did backup Drew Bledsoe
Kramer was Tark's backup.
Steve Young backed up Montana
Rodgers was #2 to Favre
Mahomes backed up Alex Smith
I don't think it's unusual to have a developing young QB be the #2. Especially if he's better than all the other QBs, exept the starter.
Look around the League now and historically. The majority of teams, and I'd wager not a small one either, have journeymen type QBs instead of young, developing guys.
Bill.Bellicheat has a journeyman backing up Brady instead of the next JG.
This is not rocket science. Veteran QBs help even future HOF QBs with preparation. It's why so many teams value that over developing a younger guy who likely doesn't help your Starter in any way.
And I'm tired of this narrative about that being the QB Coaches job. Clearly, Owners, GMs, HCs and OCs disagree that is the sole purview if the QB Coach or you wouldn't see such a large proliferation of journeyman QBs in the League year after year after year.
The other thing to think about is the point brought up about 3 OCs in 3 years. The kid took maybe the least amount of college snaps of any QB prospect in recent memory AND is learning yet another system. Might not be the best time to throw him out against stiffer competition until he's mastered it.
I guess you value Mannion's experience way more than I do. He's played in 10 games in 4 years with a total of 53 pass attempts. Yeah, that's 10 more games than Sloter has played in, but it's not like he's a cagy vet that has a vast amount playing experience.
Did you know Mannion was #2 in his second year when Keenam was the Ram's starter? Then Mannion was #2 the last two years he played with Goff.
Did the Rams break all the rules by allowing a young inexperienced QB be their #2 the past three years?
I just think the QB position is like any other. You base first, second, third string based on how well they play. It's no different for WRs, RBs, LBs, or anything else. I'm not saying it matters all that much if Cousins stays healthy, but in each game Sloter clearly looks better than Mannion. It's not even close.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannSe00.htm
Quote:
@ HappyViking said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Tom Brady did backup Drew Bledsoe
Kramer was Tark's backup.
Steve Young backed up Montana
Rodgers was #2 to Favre
Mahomes backed up Alex Smith
I don't think it's unusual to have a developing young QB be the #2. Especially if he's better than all the other QBs, exept the starter.
Look around the League now and historically. The majority of teams, and I'd wager not a small one either, have journeymen type QBs instead of young, developing guys.
Bill.Bellicheat has a journeyman backing up Brady instead of the next JG.
This is not rocket science. Veteran QBs help even future HOF QBs with preparation. It's why so many teams value that over developing a younger guy who likely doesn't help your Starter in any way.
And I'm tired of this narrative about that being the QB Coaches job. Clearly, Owners, GMs, HCs and OCs disagree that is the sole purview if the QB Coach or you wouldn't see such a large proliferation of journeyman QBs in the League year after year after year.
The other thing to think about is the point brought up about 3 OCs in 3 years. The kid took maybe the least amount of college snaps of any QB prospect in recent memory AND is learning yet another system. Might not be the best time to throw him out against stiffer competition until he's mastered it.
The reason most backups are older is because most are still better than the young guys. I dont have a problem with Manion as long as the coaches feels he gives us the best chance of success if called upon. if Sloter gives us a better chance, and they only keep 2, keep him. I have no idea what the QB coach has on his plate on gameday. I see them with QB on the side line quite often. Also, I dont see what great insight Manion will add to Kirk on game day or during the week.
Quote: @kmillard said:
I just hope Sloter can hang around for the next coaching staff to evaluate.
maybe after we win a couple SBs and he is still the backup? Or maybe takes over after Cousins retires from old age.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ BrickVike said:
The thing that bugs me about the “mentor” role for Manion is that they have a QB coach. Wouldnt it be part of his duties to sit with QB on sidelines and help with that stuff. Then Sloter gets in that conversation to learn?
How many teams currently carry a true Developmental QB as their #2?
Why is Hoyer backing up Tom Brady?
Why didn't Favre lift a finger to help Rodgers?
The truth is obvious for those that actually want to hear it.
Tom Brady did backup Drew Bledsoe
Kramer was Tark's backup.
Steve Young backed up Montana
Rodgers was #2 to Favre
Mahomes backed up Alex Smith
I don't think it's unusual to have a developing young QB be the #2. Especially if he's better than all the other QBs, exept the starter.
Look around the League now and historically. The majority of teams, and I'd wager not a small one either, have journeymen type QBs instead of young, developing guys.
Bill.Bellicheat has a journeyman backing up Brady instead of the next JG.
This is not rocket science. Veteran QBs help even future HOF QBs with preparation. It's why so many teams value that over developing a younger guy who likely doesn't help your Starter in any way.
And I'm tired of this narrative about that being the QB Coaches job. Clearly, Owners, GMs, HCs and OCs disagree that is the sole purview if the QB Coach or you wouldn't see such a large proliferation of journeyman QBs in the League year after year after year.
The other thing to think about is the point brought up about 3 OCs in 3 years. The kid took maybe the least amount of college snaps of any QB prospect in recent memory AND is learning yet another system. Might not be the best time to throw him out against stiffer competition until he's mastered it.
I think 2 things come into play.
Job security for the coach: if the starter gets hurt, who gives the team the best chance to win or at least compete for a game or 2. The rest of the vets on the team certainly aren't looking to waste their year while a wet behind the ears kid learns the game.
Second, it would be a disservice to the kid and may hinder his development if he had to actually play against an NFL defense in the regular season. If he is still raw, an NFL D would chew him up in a hurry.
Leading a vanilla preseason offense against a lot of guys who won't see meaningful NFL action this year, and this guy is suddenly a hall of famer? LOL.....Zimmer has stated that Sloter has a LONG ways to go to run the REAL offense against REAL NFL players. It's time we all get REAL and let football minds make football decisions, and let arm chair QB speculating be a thing of the past. WOW.
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