Quote:
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
it was a joke.... the loss of honey bees and other insects for pollination purposes has been well documented.
we see fish sizes come and go with the fresh water shrimp population which has been tied to flooding in the lakes. when the lakes take over grassy areas the shrimp population booms and the fish eat very well and become footballs... once the grass dies off or the water levels drop the shrimp number decline and we end up with less healthy looking fish and much lower growth rates. we see this cycle about every 10 years or so with the rain patterns.
flooding on the impounds on Missouri affect the fish sizes negatively. the primary food source on the big lakes is smelt and they move to the ends of the lake for spawning, spring flooding that requires the dams to be dumping huge amounts of water tends to flush the spawn out of the lakes and creates a year with no new food, several years of high spring discharges can leave massive bodies of water with multiple fish classes that all end up being the same size as there simply isnt enough food for them to get bigger. lowering size limits to clean out that slot size is usually the best way to restore ecological balance, but of course the GFP /DNR usually views those tactics as a last resort.
It seems to me that people observe things (changes in the world around them?)... and then invent whatever causation they want to believe is true. Doomsday cults are famous for that.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
So here's a messed up opinion on the matter. I'm more concerned about getting my kids to and from school and doing my work. I'll gladly drive a small car (which I do) I'll gladly install solar (which we will when we have the $$). But at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot I can do.
I like AC, I like to drive, I like to have Amazon ship me stuff. I doubt there are many "climate alarmists" that want to give up any or much of life's comforts. They just bitch about "big corporations" that they exist because they are consumers in the first place.
everybody wants somebody else to suffer so the planet can be saved... the ones telling everybody else what they are doing wrong are to busy counting their cash (speaking fees and grants) to reflect on their own issues that may or may not be leading to what they preach.
My recent fav's are lets plant 1 trillion trees!!!! You know because that land isn't currently in use to someone. Pretty easy to tell someone else what they need to do to save the world. If it isn't trees, its bunker fuel used in shipping or its UPS delivering Amazon or its millionaires flying private jets to global warming conventions. The population will change if we make environmentally friendly ideas affordable. Solar will be the power of the future. Electric cars will come down in price and take over. Want to save the world. Make it a no brainer costwise.
Cuz that isn't what the green movement is about. The concern is about the greenbacks, not the green grass.
And as Pumpf said, methods change over time. Pretty sure they didn't have an official airport temperature in Markusvinsa back in the 1800s.
And shoot, most of the nation was just recovering from a long cold spring. I usually put more stock into real measures, like how good the hay crop is for my family back in NoDak. Or the fire season (which has its own skew because of poor forest management). July was hot, but August has been rather cool since the first week.
But that cool weather is just weather of course, but the record heat is climate change.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Its been a long time since I've seen a caterpillar or grasshopper come to think of it -- sadly. Dont see nearly the same amount of Bees either.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Its been a long time since I've seen a caterpillar or grasshopper come to think of it -- sadly. Dont see nearly the same amount of Bees either.
Thats because theyre all in my garden
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Its been a long time since I've seen a caterpillar or grasshopper come to think of it -- sadly. Dont see nearly the same amount of Bees either.
Thats because theyre all in my garden
We are in a wet cycle, hoppers dont do well in wet years. Hot and dry is prime grasshopper weather.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Its been a long time since I've seen a caterpillar or grasshopper come to think of it -- sadly. Dont see nearly the same amount of Bees either.
Thats because theyre all in my garden
We are in a wet cycle, hoppers dont do well in wet years. Hot and dry is prime grasshopper weather.
Yup, we’ve been dry and hot. No shortage here.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Its been a long time since I've seen a caterpillar or grasshopper come to think of it -- sadly. Dont see nearly the same amount of Bees either.
Thats because theyre all in my garden
We are in a wet cycle, hoppers dont do well in wet years. Hot and dry is prime grasshopper weather.
Yup, we’ve been dry and hot. No shortage here.
And we have been very wet and I dont recall seeing any in the pasture or fields this summer.
Quote: @pumpf said:
It seems to me that people observe things (changes in the world around them?)... and then invent whatever causation they want to believe is true. Doomsday cults are famous for that.
Or if your paycheck/grant monies depend on finding certain things....
Lets just remove the subterfuge and maybe as a species we can agree to:
- There is probably a change in climate occuring
- This change is most likely not good for the planet or any of its inhabitants
- We as a species are charged with ensuring the health of the planet
- We should put resources into better understanding this change & causal with the outcome a plan on making the environment better tomorrow
How's that reds/blues, righties/lefties???
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