Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
So here's a messed up opinion on the matter. I'm more concerned about getting my kids to and from school and doing my work. I'll gladly drive a small car (which I do) I'll gladly install solar (which we will when we have the $$). But at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot I can do.
I like AC, I like to drive, I like to have Amazon ship me stuff. I doubt there are many "climate alarmists" that want to give up any or much of life's comforts. They just bitch about "big corporations" that they exist because they are consumers in the first place.
everybody wants somebody else to suffer so the planet can be saved... the ones telling everybody else what they are doing wrong are to busy counting their cash (speaking fees and grants) to reflect on their own issues that may or may not be leading to what they preach.
My recent fav's are lets plant 1 trillion trees!!!! You know because that land isn't currently in use to someone. Pretty easy to tell someone else what they need to do to save the world. If it isn't trees, its bunker fuel used in shipping or its UPS delivering Amazon or its millionaires flying private jets to global warming conventions. The population will change if we make environmentally friendly ideas affordable. Solar will be the power of the future. Electric cars will come down in price and take over. Want to save the world. Make it a no brainer costwise.
anybody got any sequoia seeds?
Paul Bunyan cut all those down in the midwest. You'll need to plant poplar trees. Those bad boys grow fast and tall.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
We were in Northern MN in June. There was enough mosquitoes to pick you up and fly you away. It was so uncomfortable that we'd wear long sleeves and pants just to escape them. The deet wasn't strong enough to stop them either.
Quote: @medaille said:
I don't think man-made global warming is for certain. I think they've done a lot of shady stuff in their "science". I think it is primarily a political agenda to tax us more and keep the underclass impoverished. I think it is undeniable that humans are having an impact on the Earth,
and if it's not meaningful now, it will be as we continue to develop. Our impact on the Earth is way more far-reaching than CO2. We're deforesting massive areas, converting eco-systems into massive monocultures for crops, dumping pesticides, herbicides, antibiotics, synthetic fertilizers by the tons. We're making and using massive amounts of new chemicals with zero thought as to what their impact is on us or the environment. We've got microwave cell towers and radiation in every spectrum covering almost every square foot of continent.
I think we clearly need to try and become good stewards of the Earth and any place we live. I don't think that guilting us or shaming us is going to move the needle at all. We were all propagandized to live this material lifestyle, to buy bigger houses, to go deeper in debt. I think those who care about the environment, need to focus on creating win-win-win technologies, that are good for the earth, good for us, and good for our pocketbooks. This gnashing and wailing of teeth of how bad everyone is, while trying to guilt everyone else into giving up their kids lunch money for the earth is not helpful. I think we need to stop this rapid creation of new chemical and cell phone tower advancement, until new stuff is sufficiently tested on us and the environment. I think we need to eliminate our debt money system. A very large chunk of how much we have to work is entirely due to our debt money system allowing housing prices to spiral out of control. I think we need to focus on all our nonmaterial needs. We're very much stuck in a materialistic cycle. Work all day to drink and buy crap to solve our emotional problems. Instead, work less, and solve our emotional problems such that we can buy less.
Also, for the love of god, not everything needs to be done at a national government level by bending the will of people that don't agree with you. People who want more renewable energy can band together and use their wealth to build companies or cooperatives that make energy. Renewable energy is great for smaller, right sized installations.
That right there in bold is how you change people. Make it economical enough that they'll do it on their own.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
The data contradicts you. The DNR is noticing drops in fish specimen sizes as well and some of that has to do with the temperature of water and the effect on oxygen levels as well as less food. Yes there are still bugs and yes you can run into a lot of them in some rural areas but researchers are finding less and less bugs in areas they used to be. I'm not really interested in arguing something that is a fact. It's like someone telling me it isn't raining because they are in Las Vegas while I am in Seattle.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
We were in Northern MN in June. There was enough mosquitoes to pick you up and fly you away. It was so uncomfortable that we'd wear long sleeves and pants just to escape them. The deet wasn't strong enough to stop them either.
Yeah but you are from TN. Of course they would try and pick you up and fly you away. We train them.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
We were in Northern MN in June. There was enough mosquitoes to pick you up and fly you away. It was so uncomfortable that we'd wear long sleeves and pants just to escape them. The deet wasn't strong enough to stop them either.
Yeah but you are from TN. Of course they would try and pick you up and fly you away. We train them.
Na, I'm from MN. They should have been protecting me from returning to TN. 
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
Here's what I think.... You don't think Man has a hand in it? ok. Do you think man can do anything about it? Do you think man should at least attempt to do something about it? We have one vehicle friends.... This is it. There's nothing else. We are the only known Intelligent Life in the universe. As far as we know we are it.
Now maybe every year being hotter and hotter is a short trend. Maybe it won't keep getting hotter.... But folks in Europe are now understanding why Air Conditioning is so prevalent in the U.S..... it is getting crazy hot there but maybe it will cool down. Maybe this is just a blip on the radar...... But maybe it isn't. And if it isn't then don't we have an obligation to our grandkids to at least attempt to do something about it? Even just the baby steps stuff? I mean I know some of y'all just a couple years were talking about how we had to reduce the deficit and not saddle our grand kids with so much debt... shouldn't we be giving this the same type of concern?
I don't get the fight over the "Is it man made or not" stuff. It doesn't matter. Either we protect the one thing that should be important to all of us or we keep watching things die off until there is no more anything left.
I have noticed something alarming over the last few years. Where are the bugs? Used to be that if we drove from Saint Paul to Hinckley here in MN by the time you got there your windshield was covered with dead bugs so bad you could hardly see out of it. Now.... Barely anything.... and I know because I drive that same stretch frequently. Hell I just drove from Minneapolis to Milwaukee and back for the Twins - Brewers series and I can tell you I barely had any bugs on the windshield. Where have they gone? And if they are gone what are the predators eating? So what does this have to do with global waring? There is something happening and we can argue whether or not man has anything to do with it or not but I think we have to be pretty ignorant at this point to try to paint the picture that we don't have a massive effect on this planet and that we all have a duty to try and make changes to protect the only planet we are ever going to know.
I think there is a feeling of powerlessness that keeps people from admitting that we have to do something. But we have to start doing something. Or not. I suppose we can gamble that nothing is going to happen and everything will be honkey dorey. I don't know. For me I think I owe it to my kids and the kids they may choose to have some day to not be that greedy to not be open to change.
No shortage of insects over here, go visit MT. Rushmore and see if you change your mind on the bug issue
.
And they are down this year but I put that more on the crazy wet year we are having not allowing standing water long enough for a hatch to occur.
We were in Northern MN in June. There was enough mosquitoes to pick you up and fly you away. It was so uncomfortable that we'd wear long sleeves and pants just to escape them. The deet wasn't strong enough to stop them either.
Yeah but you are from TN. Of course they would try and pick you up and fly you away. We train them.
Na, I'm from MN. They should have been protecting me from returning to TN.
It's the accent! I heard it.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
That is some interesting stuff. The irony of it all - we want to feed the world, and need lots of crops. Certain insects kill a lot of crops. We poisen those insects so we are more successful growing more stuff. But we end up killing all the good insects that pollinate our crops. Our crops cannot grow anymore cuz of lack of insects that pollinate our crops. I don't know the answer, but it sounds like the classic "The Cure is worse than the disease" syndrome.
Does it All simply come down to having too many people on this earth? One has to wonder if we have gone beyond the tipping point of having a human population too big for the earth to properly support with out destroying what keeps us alive in the first place.
When can we start going to Mars?
Quote: @NorthernCalVike said:
@ Mike Olson said:
That is some interesting stuff. The irony of it all - we want to feed the world, and need lots of crops. Certain insects kill a lot of crops. We poisen those insects so we are more successful growing more stuff. But we end up killing all the good insects that pollinate our crops. Our crops cannot grow anymore cuz of lack of insects that pollinate our crops. I don't know the answer, but it sounds like the classic "The Cure is worse than the disease" syndrome.
Does it All simply come down to having too many people on this earth? One has to wonder if we have gone beyond the tipping point of having a human population too big for the earth to properly support with out destroying what keeps us alive in the first place.
When can we start going to Mars?
To my knowledge there's not a great deal of insecticides being used on grain crops anymore. Certainly not like there was in the 80s. What is used in corn is GMO BT (a bacteria harmful to ear worms, root worm etc). BT depending on who you ask isn't harmful to bees for pollinating processes. This is an instance where using GMOs is reducing harmful chemicals in the environment by using targeted control on the pests that hurt the crop rather then pollinate it
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2169303/
Quote: @NorthernCalVike said:
@ Mike Olson said:
That is some interesting stuff. The irony of it all - we want to feed the world, and need lots of crops. Certain insects kill a lot of crops. We poisen those insects so we are more successful growing more stuff. But we end up killing all the good insects that pollinate our crops. Our crops cannot grow anymore cuz of lack of insects that pollinate our crops. I don't know the answer, but it sounds like the classic "The Cure is worse than the disease" syndrome.
Does it All simply come down to having too many people on this earth? One has to wonder if we have gone beyond the tipping point of having a human population too big for the earth to properly support with out destroying what keeps us alive in the first place.
When can we start going to Mars?
this and this exactly. the dependence on herbicides and pesticides is creating a whole new issue. The weeds become tolerant to conventional chemicals and become to expensive to control, the pesticides are non selective so we lose things like honey bees and such. its a viscous cycle, but rest assure that science will be there for us with the next breakthrough to fix all the damage caused by their previous breakthroughs.
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