Quote: @greediron said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
Yep; just as Jesus warned (in both the Gospels and Revelation).
Was that between the chapters involving keeping women at lower status, particularly in the case of sex slaves nuns...and those of prepubescent sex slaves altar boys?
Confirmation class was over 3 decades ago, I've forgotten some things.
What Bible were you reading? No wonder you don't trust churches: they were telling you lies- because those are not in the Bible.
Admittedly, that was more about the history of man failing in representing anything larger than him/herself...and, having spent 3 decades in New Mexico (where many "reformed" Catholic priests were posted), it guaranteed that my cynicism toward religion would be insurmountable.
Well, there are other denominations out there... that DON'T do the things that you hate. But, admittedly, they are still served by sinful people.
And there are Catholics that follow the teachings of the Church that don't do that. But as you say, wherever humanity is involved, there will be sin.
Hopefully the hiding of this scandal is over, we need to rip off the scab and clean the wound. The sinful behavior of priests, bishops and possibly even the pope is tragic.
What makes me vomit is the sheer number of times that it's "been handled"...oops, sorry, still had clergy hiding behind confession and avoiding prosecution...and/or keeping women held as second-class citizens in far too many religions, period.
Most religions should spend centuries apologizing to the women it held in such dismal status.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ greediron said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
Yep; just as Jesus warned (in both the Gospels and Revelation).
Was that between the chapters involving keeping women at lower status, particularly in the case of sex slaves nuns...and those of prepubescent sex slaves altar boys?
Confirmation class was over 3 decades ago, I've forgotten some things.
What Bible were you reading? No wonder you don't trust churches: they were telling you lies- because those are not in the Bible.
Admittedly, that was more about the history of man failing in representing anything larger than him/herself...and, having spent 3 decades in New Mexico (where many "reformed" Catholic priests were posted), it guaranteed that my cynicism toward religion would be insurmountable.
Well, there are other denominations out there... that DON'T do the things that you hate. But, admittedly, they are still served by sinful people.
And there are Catholics that follow the teachings of the Church that don't do that. But as you say, wherever humanity is involved, there will be sin.
Hopefully the hiding of this scandal is over, we need to rip off the scab and clean the wound. The sinful behavior of priests, bishops and possibly even the pope is tragic.
keeping women held as second-class citizens in far too many religions, period.
Most religions should spend centuries apologizing to the women it held in such dismal status.
I will have to say I laugh at that. Christianity has long held women in esteem. Now some today have reverted and degrade the dignity of women, but if you actually look at the Bible, Jesus talked to women, even a Samaritan woman. Mary has always been held in esteem. The notion of freedom and equality is peculiar to Christianity.
The problem of viewing women as second class isn't isolated to western or Christian civilization. Many tribes of Native Americans were guilty as well. Africa. Middle East. Asia. Yeah, they all have issues.
Christianity is being persecuted in America everyday now. But Islam is being promoted! You talk about putting women down... Islam treats women as property. They mutilate women's genitals to "prevent" adultery. They stone women to death for it They throw gays off of buildings. But yeah us Easter observers are terrible people. SMFH
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ greediron said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
Yep; just as Jesus warned (in both the Gospels and Revelation).
Was that between the chapters involving keeping women at lower status, particularly in the case of sex slaves nuns...and those of prepubescent sex slaves altar boys?
Confirmation class was over 3 decades ago, I've forgotten some things.
What Bible were you reading? No wonder you don't trust churches: they were telling you lies- because those are not in the Bible.
Admittedly, that was more about the history of man failing in representing anything larger than him/herself...and, having spent 3 decades in New Mexico (where many "reformed" Catholic priests were posted), it guaranteed that my cynicism toward religion would be insurmountable.
Well, there are other denominations out there... that DON'T do the things that you hate. But, admittedly, they are still served by sinful people.
And there are Catholics that follow the teachings of the Church that don't do that. But as you say, wherever humanity is involved, there will be sin.
Hopefully the hiding of this scandal is over, we need to rip off the scab and clean the wound. The sinful behavior of priests, bishops and possibly even the pope is tragic.
What makes me vomit is the sheer number of times that it's "been handled"...oops, sorry, still had clergy hiding behind confession and avoiding prosecution...and/or keeping women held as second-class citizens in far too many religions, period.
Most religions should spend centuries apologizing to the women it held in such dismal status.
Compared to most world religions, Christianity held women in far higher esteem- at that time. Nowadays, though, it's popular to judge people of the past by the trends of the present.
Sexually assaulting children- however- is always evil. "Wrong" seems to be a matter of taste for a given time and place. But somethings transcend those mores; they are universally right and universally wrong. Sexually assaulting / abusing children is always wrong.
As guilty as the Catholic Church is (unfortunately, they are considered guilty by association- not so much because of the local priests and bishops but because the "higher-ups" were the ones to allow evil to fester), public school teachers have a much higher rate of child sexual abuse / assault. But no one is judging all teachers by the acts of the (relative) few... or boycotting public schools because of it. If you really do "reject" (not sure what term you would prefer) organized religion, shouldn't you also "reject" public schools?
Quote: @Sir Viking Bob VWO said:
Christianity is being persecuted in America everyday now. But Islam is being promoted! You talk about putting women down... Islam treats women as property. They mutilate women's genitals to "prevent" adultery. They stone women to death for it They throw gays off of buildings. But yeah us Easter observers are terrible people. SMFH
As much as I disagree with Christianity, you're right: Islam should not be promoted. Tolerance of course should be, as long as you're not harming other people. But the religion itself, out of ALL the religions, is terrible and dangerous.
Although I don't really see it being promoted too often except for the radical left circles, if that's any consolation. This is where the left is just outrageously wrong. All the stuff you mentioned is absolutely commonplace in strict Muslim practice in the Middle East. You'd think everybody over here would be on board condemning that, but you've gotta pull it out of them. They'd rather turn a blind eye and promote religious equality.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ greediron said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pumpf said:
Yep; just as Jesus warned (in both the Gospels and Revelation).
Was that between the chapters involving keeping women at lower status, particularly in the case of sex slaves nuns...and those of prepubescent sex slaves altar boys?
Confirmation class was over 3 decades ago, I've forgotten some things.
What Bible were you reading? No wonder you don't trust churches: they were telling you lies- because those are not in the Bible.
Admittedly, that was more about the history of man failing in representing anything larger than him/herself...and, having spent 3 decades in New Mexico (where many "reformed" Catholic priests were posted), it guaranteed that my cynicism toward religion would be insurmountable.
Well, there are other denominations out there... that DON'T do the things that you hate. But, admittedly, they are still served by sinful people.
And there are Catholics that follow the teachings of the Church that don't do that. But as you say, wherever humanity is involved, there will be sin.
Hopefully the hiding of this scandal is over, we need to rip off the scab and clean the wound. The sinful behavior of priests, bishops and possibly even the pope is tragic.
What makes me vomit is the sheer number of times that it's "been handled"...oops, sorry, still had clergy hiding behind confession and avoiding prosecution...and/or keeping women held as second-class citizens in far too many religions, period.
Most religions should spend centuries apologizing to the women it held in such dismal status.
Compared to most world religions, Christianity held women in far higher esteem- at that time. Nowadays, though, it's popular to judge people of the past by the trends of the present.
Sexually assaulting children- however- is always evil. "Wrong" seems to be a matter of taste for a given time and place. But somethings transcend those mores; they are universally right and universally wrong. Sexually assaulting / abusing children is always wrong.
As guilty as the Catholic Church is (unfortunately, they are considered guilty by association- not so much because of the local priests and bishops but because the "higher-ups" were the ones to allow evil to fester), public school teachers have a much higher rate of child sexual abuse / assault. But no one is judging all teachers by the acts of the (relative) few... or boycotting public schools because of it. If you really do "reject" (not sure what term you would prefer) organized religion, shouldn't you also "reject" public schools?
Always gotta tie your team's wrongdoing's to another's...
The common denominator is careers (define as you will) where men are given authority over children. These careers, whether it's the Catholic church or public school teachers, are beacons of light for pedophiles.
And wherever you're getting your statistics, I'd like to see. I don't doubt it, but no well-adjusted man decides, "You know what? I'm gonna be celibate and shroud myself in a guilt-ridden life where people come to me for guidance... including children."
Also: why "public" schools? Did the study not include private? I can't see too many variables between the two that would change things.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Now I have. This is why I just don't even pay attention to the religious right. They're just silly. They burn calories over nonsense.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ pumpf said:
Compared to most world religions, Christianity held women in far higher esteem- at that time. Nowadays, though, it's popular to judge people of the past by the trends of the present.
Sexually assaulting children- however- is always evil. "Wrong" seems to be a matter of taste for a given time and place. But somethings transcend those mores; they are universally right and universally wrong. Sexually assaulting / abusing children is always wrong.
As guilty as the Catholic Church is (unfortunately, they are considered guilty by association- not so much because of the local priests and bishops but because the "higher-ups" were the ones to allow evil to fester), public school teachers have a much higher rate of child sexual abuse / assault. But no one is judging all teachers by the acts of the (relative) few... or boycotting public schools because of it. If you really do "reject" (not sure what term you would prefer) organized religion, shouldn't you also "reject" public schools?
Always gotta tie your team's wrongdoing's to another's...
The common denominator is careers (define as you will) where men are given authority over children. These careers, whether it's the Catholic church or public school teachers, are beacons of light for pedophiles.
And wherever you're getting your statistics, I'd like to see. I don't doubt it, but no well-adjusted man decides, "You know what? I'm gonna be celibate and shroud myself in a guilt-ridden life where people come to me for guidance... including children."
Also: why "public" schools? Did the study not include private? I can't see too many variables between the two that would change things.
I did the research years ago... and I posted the links back then. I'm not real interested in doing all that leg-work again. As for "public" schools- there are 2 reasons for that. One, is that the Teacher's Unions protect these pedophiles- just like the Catholic church protected theirs. Private schools have no such mechanism in place. Second, that private schools have never been surveyed / studied (near as my research can tell). So, I'm not denying that it could- and probably does- happen in private schools, too.
As for why I brought it up, it's certainly not to excuse "holy men" of committing terrible crimes. It's to remind folks that- if they really DO care about the children (and not just about attacking a religious institution), then their outrage ought to include others who are doing it, too- ESPECIALLY if those "others" are doing it at a much higher rate of incidence. PS: I'm not Catholic... so I don't consider them "my team". I think that their theology regarding justification is wrong- and, at times- damnable. So, no: they're not "my team".
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Now I have. This is why I just don't even pay attention to the religious right. They're just silly. They burn calories over nonsense.
Such a well written piece.
"I would argue that it takes a true savant of exquisitely attuned grievance collection to read an individual reference to “Easter worshippers” as an attempt to avoid acknowledging Christianity."
I give you the white, conservative, evangelical Christian.
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