Quote: @StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
In the words of Jon Luc Picard--- Geoff make it so.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
I think McCoy is going to be a good starting guard in the league: he's got that thick you need at OG. I agree with you, McCoy is a better fit, I'm sure the Vikings don't want to get off of Elflein at center. And McCoy has handled the big boys inside better than Bradbury.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
I totally get the sort of awkward feeling that drafting Bradbury and moving Elflein gives you. It sort of gives me that vibe too. It's why I would not at all be surprised to see the Vikings draft Lindstrom ahead of Bradbury, even though Bradbury is the better player.
But it does beg the question: If Elflein struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level, he may not be pivot you want in a Kubiak outside zone. I know who is. :-)
We have a new OC, a new run game coordinator, a new offensive line coach. It might be time to re-evaluate the folks we have on our line. I don't want to create NEW positions to be filled, because God knows we already have a lot to fill. However, let's not forget that Elflein graded out as the worst center in the NFL last year. We can say it was due to injury...but was it? Also, even though his rookie year was promising (for a rookie) it just wasn't that awesome. He graded out pretty good as a pass blocker, but had a terrible run blocking grade. This the guy you're counting on to run Kubiak's run game? Is this your Tom Nalen? Man, I don't know.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
And let's not forget Elf was a 3rd Round pick. You know who should be available in the 3rd? Powers, Samia, Davis and others. True Guards, not OG/OC tweeners.
Bradbury in the 1st and Samia in the 3rd? Yes, please!
Quote: @PurplePastor said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
I don't take it as challenging. I post all of this to spark dialogue, not to dictate that my opinon(s) are what the Vikings should do and nothing else should be considered.
I think both you and @MaroonBells bring up good points regrading Elflein. Have we prematurely put his name in pen on the starting line? Maybe. I do think bringing in another piece to compete with Elf would be good. It just comes down to resource allocation and what the team thinks of Dozier and Jones. What I keep coming back to is the Vikings constantly suggesting they think highly of Elf. I don't think it is marketing talk.
We all would be fooling ourselves if we thought the line was going to be a top unit this upcoming season. The goal is to find at least an average starting 5 that can continue to be refined in future years. When looking at it that way a starting 5 of Reiff - Elflein - Bradbury - Kleine - O'Neill probably works. If Elflein did completely falter you could always try and working with O'Neill - Reiff - Bradbury - Kleine - Hill as well.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
And let's not forget Elf was a 3rd Round pick. You know who should be available in the 3rd? Powers, Samia, Davis and others. True Guards, not OG/OC tweeners.
Bradbury in the 1st and Samia in the 3rd? Yes, please!
It's a resource allocation dilemma. If they want to address O-line, TE, and DT in the first few rounds I don't think they will go O-line twice. Crazy or not the Vikings were in this scenario the past two drafts and stuck to their board. That ended with Elflein in the 3rd and O'Neill in the 2nd. I wouldn't call it crazy to think they will hand select someone like Samia and take them in the 3rd and call that the solution..
This clearly would not be a media acceptable approach :#
Here's the thing with 3T, Guru. They've already spent two 4ths. And Griff can sub there.
If I was GM I'd tell Mike I gave you 2 picks. Time to give some love to the other Line.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
I don't take it as challenging. I post all of this to spark dialogue, not to dictate that my opinon(s) are what the Vikings should do and nothing else should be considered.
I think both you and @ MaroonBells bring up good points regrading Elflein. Have we prematurely put his name in pen on the starting line? Maybe. I do think bringing in another piece to compete with Elf would be good. It just comes down to resource allocation and what the team thinks of Dozier and Jones. What I keep coming back to is the Vikings constantly suggesting they think highly of Elf. I don't think it is marketing talk.
We all would be fooling ourselves if we thought the line was going to be a top unit this upcoming season. The goal is to find at least an average starting 5 that can continue to be refined in future years. When looking at it that way a starting 5 of Reiff - Elflein - Bradbury - Kleine - O'Neill probably works. If Elflein did completely falter you could always try and working with O'Neill - Reiff - Bradbury - Kleine - Hill as well.
Geoff, you sees things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not.
You can quote me on that. :-)
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