Quote: @medaille said:
@ Jor-El said:
Didn't Norv Turner have the kahunas or whatever to tell Mike to bug off? That works until we hit a two-game losing streak and Zimmer starts looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism from his defense - then somebody gets punched in the eye. Kubiak better hope there are plenty of kickers to blame before him.
I don't remember this. Do you have a link or any more information about the context surrounding your statement?
What do you want a link for - the size of Turner's kahunas relative to Kubiak's? Nope!!
You must remember that Kubiak is not the first former head coach with great experience and reportedly a tremendous degree of respect from Zimmer.
If you're asking what I mean by "punched in the eye"...you could just take it as a euphemism for "relationship broke when stress was applied and both parties visibly upset after a midseason departure". I've heard a story that more happened and it was not a coincidence that Zimmer's detached retina problems started immediately after Turner's departure, but my source for that is "someone who knows someone with the team", and I don't think anyone's "inside sources" care to be identified any further. I understand that bit may be apocryphal..
I do like Kubiak, mostly because he and Dennison are ZBS gurus and the only time an OL ever makes a quick turnaround without significant talent upgrades has been when they adopted a zone scheme and did it well. But no one should be certain that having an experienced offensive mind on the staff will automatically solve all of Zimmer's problems with offense.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
That's because Case also wouldn't have looked like dogshit for the first 3 quarters either. It was disturbing how many games, especially in the second half of the season, where the Vikings would have basically ZERO production on offense for the first half or more.
Regarding QBs, they should be drafting or bringing in a rookie FA QB every single year until (and even after) they finally hit on their true franchise, HOF-level QB. Just look what happens when QBs like TJack, Ponder, Teddy, etc. are given no real competition and the pipeline behind them is left empty.
JORDAN TA'AMUQB, MISSISSIPPI REBELS
Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline says that Ole Miss QB Jordan Ta'amu will assuredly be drafted after his performance at his pro day.Ta'amu (6'3/221) was "very accurate" and showed "great arm strength", earning him a "winner" designation from Pauline. The draft analyst believes Ta'amu will be viewed as a nice developmental quarterback prospect, going as far as saying that he has "great upside." Only 21 years old, Ta'amu is very inexperienced, but he showed promise in his 1.5 seasons as a starter averaging 9.4 yards per pass attempt. Pauline reports that he met with the Vikings, Saints, Cowboys, and Texans before leaving for his internship with a local police department.
SOURCE: Draft Analyst
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
That's because Case also wouldn't have looked like dogshit for the first 3 quarters either. It was disturbing how many games, especially in the second half of the season, where the Vikings would have basically ZERO production on offense for the first half or more.
Regarding QBs, they should be drafting or bringing in a rookie FA QB every single year until (and even after) they finally hit on their true franchise, HOF-level QB. Just look what happens when QBs like TJack, Ponder, Teddy, etc. are given no real competition and the pipeline behind them is left empty.
Case wouldn't have looked like dogshit for 3 quarters? Lol, try telling that to Denver fans.
I think ya’ll are crazy lol! I have zero worries about Kirk Cousins. It’s been many years since we’ve had such a porous offensive line yet Cousins was only sacked 40 times. I would say in many ways Cousins outperformed how he should have. Regardless of the stats I look at be it traditional or next generation, Cousins compares nearly identical to Tom Brady in nearly every single category. Even on something vital like Under Pressure performance as of Dec 1 Tom and Kirk were tied for 5th in the league. He ended the year ranked 7th against pressure despite facing NE, Seattle and Chicago after that. This performance was during a season that saw him receive the 5th most pressires in the league.
Cousins was the most accurate passer in the NFL under pressure. The high amount of pressure though brought an average attempt of just 6.8 yards which may give you an idea of where his overall average ended up.
Cousins ranked 9th in sack given up per pressure. This was despite the issue pretty much all of us identify as needing improvement, throwing it away just 13 times all year. So as you see, he’s probably pushing the edge of the envelop on when he needs to give up on the play but it appears he has reason to be confident in getting rid of it at the last second.
PFF credited Cousins as creating his own pressure (being oblivious to the pressure or holding the ball too long) on 17 out of his 259 times under pressure. On the flip side, Couins waited longer to scramble than he probably should, coming in 22nd longest. Although this isn’t a huge surprise as he’s undeniably a drop back passer, he needs to do a better job of scrambling a little earlier and/or dumping it off quicker.
When blitzed this year Cousins was elite posing a QB rating of 104.5 with 8 TD’s to 2 Int’s with a 7.6 average. When kept clean Cousins was just abouve average coming in 11th in the league. He posted a 108.5 average but his 7.3 per attempt is a problem that I see. This is where an offensive coach should be re-evaluating playcalling/depth of routes etc with perhaps putting more verticle routes in. It seemed at leadt from my eye that depth of routes/throws went down a fair amount in the second half of the season. What does this tell me? It tells me the offensive coordinator likely adapted the passing offense to deal with the poor play of the line. However, based on Kirk’s play under pressure, if I’m right on this, this was a mistake by the coordinator and they should have stayed with what they were doing.
Looking at 4th Quarter comebacks and final winning drives is a little difficult, as it has been for other recent quarterback since our kickers are so often epic failures under pressure. Cousins at times has had the rep of this being a weakness but this is not born out by his past seasons. Two years ago he had 4 of each during the season.
What does all of this tell me? Cousins weaknesses are reminiscent of Brett Favre for me. Pocket Awareness is average (really gets focused downfield looking for someone open), he doesn’t have enough speed to make up for his wait time and tends to trust in his ability to squeze a last second throw in there to his detriment at times. These traits are often a double edged sword though. Even modest improvement in scrambling a tenth or so sooner and throwing away could have a dramatic improvement on performance. We didn’t see this much in Brett’s career until late so hopefully Cousin’s can improve sooner.
A change to Kubiak can only give him better opportunities in my opinion. Improving the running game can also make a big difference. We have a great back but he seriously made things look better than they were. As with our pass blocking run blocking was also a significant weakness. This negatively impacts everything. If this team wants to make a run at a championship this area is not good enough.
In summation, I believe Cousins is much better than he’s given credit for. His ability to perform despite seeing as many pressures as the season before in just the first 11 games was remarkable. In my opinion the decision to part ways with our playcaller last year was well supported by the statistics. On the other side of the coin, I don’t think this team overall was as good as we expected. It doesn’t take more than a below average offensive or defensive line to have a huge impact on winning or losing.
At only 30 years old I see Cousins as a QB with a ton of upside and I see him as a franchise QB. A coach should be able to win with Kirk if he and the GM take care of the rest of the team. I wouldn’t hesitate to sign him long term although I think his contract is inflated.
I would take a HB before another QB early and an offensive lineman at a premium pick before both. As I posted about last week, we are seeing entire annual drafts resulting in just 3 or 4 guys even in the league after 5 years. Sloter shows enough for me right now. Unless some crazy thing happened like when Aaron Rodgers dropped I wouldn’t draft a high QB.
My man crush is on Wil Grier. If he is there late in the 3rd. I would be ecstatic if we grabbed him
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
That's because Case also wouldn't have looked like dogshit for the first 3 quarters either. It was disturbing how many games, especially in the second half of the season, where the Vikings would have basically ZERO production on offense for the first half or more.
Regarding QBs, they should be drafting or bringing in a rookie FA QB every single year until (and even after) they finally hit on their true franchise, HOF-level QB. Just look what happens when QBs like TJack, Ponder, Teddy, etc. are given no real competition and the pipeline behind them is left empty.
Case wouldn't have looked like dogshit for 3 quarters? Lol, try telling that to Denver fans.
Are these Denver fans you speak of, aware of the fact that Case lost his #1 WR after game 8, only receiving TE after game 10 and his #2 WR for the last 4 games.
If Kirk lost Adam, Kyle and Diggs for those same amount of games.
It would be another excuse for him, so why not for Case?
He had over 2100 yards after game 8.
No we have more pressing needs to address===If sloter isn't the man we can find him in the cuts/trade options later. 84 mil---puts it off until next year
Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
That's because Case also wouldn't have looked like dogshit for the first 3 quarters either. It was disturbing how many games, especially in the second half of the season, where the Vikings would have basically ZERO production on offense for the first half or more.
Regarding QBs, they should be drafting or bringing in a rookie FA QB every single year until (and even after) they finally hit on their true franchise, HOF-level QB. Just look what happens when QBs like TJack, Ponder, Teddy, etc. are given no real competition and the pipeline behind them is left empty.
Case wouldn't have looked like dogshit for 3 quarters? Lol, try telling that to Denver fans.
Are these Denver fans you speak of, aware of the fact that Case lost his #1 WR after game 8, only receiving TE after game 10 and his #2 WR for the last 4 games.
If Kirk lost Adam, Kyle and Diggs for those same amount of games.
It would be another excuse for him, so why not for Case?
He had over 2100 yards after game 8.
They were certainly looking like a Super Bowl contender before that weren't they? 
Meanwhile, he's on his 3rd team in 3 years.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ holmanjp said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
That's because Case also wouldn't have looked like dogshit for the first 3 quarters either. It was disturbing how many games, especially in the second half of the season, where the Vikings would have basically ZERO production on offense for the first half or more.
Regarding QBs, they should be drafting or bringing in a rookie FA QB every single year until (and even after) they finally hit on their true franchise, HOF-level QB. Just look what happens when QBs like TJack, Ponder, Teddy, etc. are given no real competition and the pipeline behind them is left empty.
Case wouldn't have looked like dogshit for 3 quarters? Lol, try telling that to Denver fans.
Are these Denver fans you speak of, aware of the fact that Case lost his #1 WR after game 8, only receiving TE after game 10 and his #2 WR for the last 4 games.
If Kirk lost Adam, Kyle and Diggs for those same amount of games.
It would be another excuse for him, so why not for Case?
He had over 2100 yards after game 8.
They were certainly looking like a Super Bowl contender before that weren't they?
Meanwhile, he's on his 3rd team in 3 years.
...and yet a 3rd team is taking him. A 2nd that will likely install him as their starter. Look Case is what he is. Washington will take a QB in the draft. Case is just holding the water.
As for Denver we'll see how happy they are with their new more expensive QB. Elway has an idea what a quarterback SHOULD look like. He wants his big arm. I'm not so sure horseface is a guru when it comes to finding QB's. Other then bringing in an old HOF'er his choices have not been great. He did choose not to give Osweiler that big contract. Partial credit. Didn't find anybody better just cheaper. Now he's not gotten cheaper. Has their prospects improved?
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