Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL.
This has been said about the position for as long as I can remember. Right now its Mahomes, before him it was newton, before that Kaepernick, Wilson, ..... Vick....cunninghan...
The list goes on, but in the last 30 to 40 years the ones with the most rings are the traditional pocket passers. Now maybe the league will actually change this time, but I will believe it when I see it.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ pumpf said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
I'm as dumb about these things as the next guy... but I've got an opinion and a keybso here goes:
I blame Zimmer. I have scant evidence to prove it, but I believe he tells his QBs to "not make mistakes"- and he drills that into them so hard (that's what she said) that they are afraid to throw to any receiver beyond the LOS who *might* be covered. Cousins got worse as the year went on. Why is that? I think it's that- when he made some mistakes (which he did)- he got reprimanded for it by Zimmer. Cousins, being a "dutiful" person, did what he was told: he stopped taking chances.
Of course, Zimmer would never admit that... just like he'd never admit that his big mouth is hurting our kickers (who are not mentally tough enough to be treated the way they are). He gets all his toys for his defense... and then expects his OC / QB to make beef wellington out of cow pies. Take the muzzle off of Cousins, let him do his thing. And THEN- if he fails- you've got one year to get his replacement ready.
My gut says there's absolutely some truth in this...One of Zimmer's blind spots has been how poorly the coaching, strategy and staff has been on the offensive side of the ball.
With Kubiak and crew in Eagan? I think there's finally enough "kahuna's and cred" to tell Mike to bug off and let us handle this side of things. In a respectful manner of course.
Didn't Norv Turner have the kahunas or whatever to tell Mike to bug off? That works until we hit a two-game losing streak and Zimmer starts looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism from his defense - then somebody gets punched in the eye. Kubiak better hope there are plenty of kickers to blame before him.
Re the OP:
One thing Spielman does well is pick defensive players. Draft picks or free agents, more have been good.
A thing he doesn't do so well: pick offensive players. A few nice ones, but heavily outweighed by duds.
But the thing he does worst, utterly abysmally?? Pick quarterbacks. All failures, except s generous grade of "incomplete" for Bridgewater and TBD for Cousins . But if you want to draft Cousins' replacement, he must be a fail too.
And you want Spielman to pick our QB of the future??
Quote: @Jor-El said:
Didn't Norv Turner have the kahunas or whatever to tell Mike to bug off? That works until we hit a two-game losing streak and Zimmer starts looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism from his defense - then somebody gets punched in the eye. Kubiak better hope there are plenty of kickers to blame before him.
I don't remember this. Do you have a link or any more information about the context surrounding your statement?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL.
I would disagree with the latter portion of your post. Cousins can absolutely win in this league. He has all the arm talent he needs to get the job done. Brady, Brees, Goff, and others seem to get the job done just fine in this "modern NFL".
Quote: @Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that? What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that? It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.
Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either. IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.
Continuity will help and obviously their feelings now can change. It's only been a single year. He isn't a rookie QB but look at the progression a lot of those guys take in year 2 & 3. Receiver chemistry, the system, etc.. will all have a foundation vs. a new start.
Zimmer crying about running the ball both has some merit but its easy to jump to extremes as well. Although you're paying Cousins top QB $ he is going to be best in a system where he isn't carrying the load unless he has to. Run the ball effectively and everything will open up and be less risky from the QB's standpoint. What Cousins does bring to the table is the ability to comeback in games (e.g. Green Bay week 2). Case doesn't get that game tied.
Time will tell.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned. Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air. I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.
As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative.
Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL.
I would disagree with the latter portion of your post. Cousins can absolutely win in this league. He has all the arm talent he needs to get the job done. Brady, Brees, Goff, and others seem to get the job done just fine in this "modern NFL".
Goff hasn't stood the test of time, too early to put him in there. So its Brady and Brees who now get the 'Michael Jordan' calls of the NFL. I like Cousins, but its not all about arm talent. He's a horrible fumbler in the pocket. And when he wins in the NFL, it'll be the first time. Hope it happens in Minnesota. But if I had to put $100 down on if he'll be a Viking after this contract, I'd say absolutely not. And if I had to lay that same bet on whether Minnesota gets better or worse in 2019, you'd have to say worse.
Time will tell. The NFL has a way of being unpredictable and my hope is I'm pleasantly surprised.
Kirk only has 2 years left on the deal. I think what Guru is saying about the Vikings position right now (theoretically) on resigning him is very important because a rookie will have 4 years on a contract, and 5 if we go extreme in the 1st round.
That's 2 or 3 years of potentially starting after marinating for 2 years. That's a great situation for everyone involved if you can find the right player...
It's about preparing for what's ahead on the path we've chosen, not picking a new one. It's not about jettisoning Cousins and eating dead money asap - the writing is on the wall that he isn't getting another 3 year - $80+ million dollar extension when this current one is up.
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