Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
That's a good analogy. I don't think we gave up as much in terms of long-term assets for Cousins as we did for Walker, but definitely similar.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
That's a good analogy. I don't think we gave up as much in terms of long-term assets for Cousins as we did for Walker, but definitely similar.
I agree we got robbed for Walker with assets. Different time and circumstances. Then there wasn't a cap issue then so Kirks salary acts like lost assets. Mainly it was the realization we weren't really one player away. Which I didn't believe with Walker but sadly did with Cousins.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I'll throw a wildcard at you. What if they're willing to bump up against the cap until the draft to see how it plays out. If they can grab a day one starter at OT and another Guard in rounds 3/4 what ties them to Reiff? Not saying it is likely but they could opt to release him post June-1 to get over $9M in cap space. Even if Reiff is on the roster in 2019 I have a gut feeling they're going to think about flipping him and O'Neill if they don't bump him inside to LG.
At this point I think its safe to say that they're penciling Kline in at RG. That leaves you one spot to fill with some flexibility in how you do it since the remaining 3 players on the roster can play multiple positions. Reiff (LT/RT/LG?), O'Neill (LT/RT), Elflein (C/LG).
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I have every intention of letting it play out. You missed most of my point. Were not 2 of the last 3 seasons a huge disappointment? When I thought going in we could compete. So yeah I'm withholding my enthusiasm with this regime. At least Jerry won 2 playoff games in one season. We will see what the 4th offensive system brings now. I"ll be there.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I have every intention of letting it play out. You missed most of my point. Were not 2 of the last 3 seasons a huge disappointment? When I thought going in we could compete. So yeah I'm withholding my enthusiasm with this regime. At least Jerry won 2 playoff games in one season. We will see what the 4th offensive system brings now. I"ll be there.
Exactly. I think its hilarious to say 'lets see how things play out'....it worked so well last year. There's good reason to be highly skeptical about this offensive line's potential performance for 2019. If others want to not dwell on it or take an unsubstantiatedly positive outlook on it, more power to you. But signing Kline or drafting rookies isn't going to move the needle for 2019.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I have every intention of letting it play out. You missed most of my point. Were not 2 of the last 3 seasons a huge disappointment? When I thought going in we could compete. So yeah I'm withholding my enthusiasm with this regime. At least Jerry won 2 playoff games in one season. We will see what the 4th offensive system brings now. I"ll be there.
Exactly. I think its hilarious to say 'lets see how things play out'....it worked so well last year. There's good reason to be highly skeptical about this offensive line's potential performance for 2019. If others want to not dwell on it or take an unsubstantiatedly positive outlook on it, more power to you. But signing Kline or drafting rookies isn't going to move the needle for 2019.
I think that is somewhat misguided. Did talent make the O-line successful or at least average during the 2017 season? Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Berger - Remmers were not a talented line, but they produced one of the better ground games in the league and managed to get by in pass protection. Case was part but not all of the equation. In 2018 the line was doomed from the start since Sparano put together the running game each week. The lack of a running game killed them all season and indirectly killed their ability to pass protect.
Dennison/Kubiak have a proven track record of putting together strong lines with the resources they are given. Regardless of talent I feel confident they will at minimum be able to scheme a good running game. That in itself will help. Assuming they use the draft to improve on whats currently have on the roster this line in 2019 will be more talented than what they had in 2017 and times better than 2016. But you don't know what you have until you give it time to gel.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I have every intention of letting it play out. You missed most of my point. Were not 2 of the last 3 seasons a huge disappointment? When I thought going in we could compete. So yeah I'm withholding my enthusiasm with this regime. At least Jerry won 2 playoff games in one season. We will see what the 4th offensive system brings now. I"ll be there.
Exactly. I think its hilarious to say 'lets see how things play out'....it worked so well last year. There's good reason to be highly skeptical about this offensive line's potential performance for 2019. If others want to not dwell on it or take an unsubstantiatedly positive outlook on it, more power to you. But signing Kline or drafting rookies isn't going to move the needle for 2019.
I think that is somewhat misguided. Did talent make the O-line successful or at least average during the 2017 season? Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Berger - Remmers were not a talented line, but they produced one of the better ground games in the league and managed to get by in pass protection. Case was part but not all of the equation. In 2018 the line was doomed from the start since Sparano put together the running game each week. The lack of a running game killed them all season and indirectly killed their ability to pass protect.
Dennison/Kubiak have a proven track record of putting together strong lines with the resources they are given. Regardless of talent I feel confident they will at minimum be able to scheme a good running game. That in itself will help. Assuming they use the draft to improve on whats currently have on the roster this line in 2019 will be more talented than what they had in 2017 and times better than 2016. But you don't know what you have until you give it time to gel.
Like I said, that's an opinion. Its all we've got until September. I'm sure the board will get another motivational bump when the Draft is done, it usually does. Its very cyclical. The bottom line is: its a new staff that will integrate a new blocking scheme. New starters. My opinion is that the odds are definitely stronger that the team remains mediocre in 2019 than not. Doesn't mean they can't be better than that, I just think its doubtful personally.
Hope always springs eternal. Then cold reality hits (as it always does in Vikingland).
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I have every intention of letting it play out. You missed most of my point. Were not 2 of the last 3 seasons a huge disappointment? When I thought going in we could compete. So yeah I'm withholding my enthusiasm with this regime. At least Jerry won 2 playoff games in one season. We will see what the 4th offensive system brings now. I"ll be there.
Exactly. I think its hilarious to say 'lets see how things play out'....it worked so well last year. There's good reason to be highly skeptical about this offensive line's potential performance for 2019. If others want to not dwell on it or take an unsubstantiatedly positive outlook on it, more power to you. But signing Kline or drafting rookies isn't going to move the needle for 2019.
I think that is somewhat misguided. Did talent make the O-line successful or at least average during the 2017 season? Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Berger - Remmers were not a talented line, but they produced one of the better ground games in the league and managed to get by in pass protection. Case was part but not all of the equation. In 2018 the line was doomed from the start since Sparano put together the running game each week. The lack of a running game killed them all season and indirectly killed their ability to pass protect.
Dennison/Kubiak have a proven track record of putting together strong lines with the resources they are given. Regardless of talent I feel confident they will at minimum be able to scheme a good running game. That in itself will help. Assuming they use the draft to improve on whats currently have on the roster this line in 2019 will be more talented than what they had in 2017 and times better than 2016. But you don't know what you have until you give it time to gel.
So are we to take ourselves off the annual Viking suck suicide watch program that many of us seem to end up on each year lol.
Not tickled by what we've done but we got an average lineman to replace an average lineman only we gained durability. There's no saying Easton wont flop this year for the Aints.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
Vikings better hope they don't have ONE injury on the O-line this season because the depth will be horrific. Everyone will also be learning a new zone scheme with new coaches. You can see how this is lining up, right?? Less than optimal would be highly diplomatic.
I feel this way too. I sure hope I'm being over dramatic. After 2016 and last year this team doesn't feel right. Though these are different times and circumstances. To me it feels like the 88 - 90 team. Jerry Burns had what seemed to be alot of talent that just never seemed to gel. Past that one miraculous run. We mortgaged everything for that one piece we felt was missing only to realize there was alot more holes then we thought. With a coach that openly questioned if he was getting through to the team. I am a bit concerned we slammed another window shut that wasn't as open as I believed.
You are. But so many Viking fans are like that. Why not just let it play out and see what we end up with? We're SO FAR away from the conclusion of this thing. And we still have several chips to play. Keep in mind that the Vikings are still more likely than not to trade Waynes. I sort of have a hunch they're waiting to see how Holton Hill's issue plays out before they pull the trigger on one among a few deals they have already negotiated. Probably won't happen until the draft. Does it come with a draft pick that we use on OL? Does it come with a player?
In either case, how far are we away from an improved offensive line?
LT - Reiff, D3
LG - D1, Collins
C - Elflein, Jones
RG - Kline, Isidora
RT - O'Neill, D3
Not that far. Compton is upgraded to a 1st round draft pick. Remmers is upgraded to Kline. O'Neill should be better in his 2nd season. Elflein should be better. Reiff's replacement is on the roster. Collins is depth with upside. And that's without adding ANY more free agents, a lot of whom typically come between the draft and training camp.... or what we might get for Waynes. Or what Kubes and Dennison can do....
I'll throw a wildcard at you. What if they're willing to bump up against the cap until the draft to see how it plays out. If they can grab a day one starter at OT and another Guard in rounds 3/4 what ties them to Reiff? Not saying it is likely but they could opt to release him post June-1 to get over $9M in cap space. Even if Reiff is on the roster in 2019 I have a gut feeling they're going to think about flipping him and O'Neill if they don't bump him inside to LG.
At this point I think its safe to say that they're penciling Kline in at RG. That leaves you one spot to fill with some flexibility in how you do it since the remaining 3 players on the roster can play multiple positions. Reiff (LT/RT/LG?), O'Neill (LT/RT), Elflein (C/LG).
Has Danny Isidora slipped from being considered a potential starter at an OG spot?
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