I never noticed that when you have someone on ignore that when they post a new thread you can read it but then not their comments. My mistake for reading this thread 
Quote: @minny65 said:
I never noticed that when you have someone on ignore that when they post a new thread you can read it but then not their comments. My mistake for reading this thread
It's the same old simple-minded rhetoric repeated over and over and over and over again in this post or any other post whether it pertains to the topic or not.
Quote: @minny65 said:
I never noticed that when you have someone on ignore that when they post a new thread you can read it but then not their comments. My mistake for reading this thread
Don't worry; NJPackerfan only posts here after the Vikings lose. So he won't be around forever. We just have to wait until the next win.
Quote: @njvike said:
5. I think this was a thought-provoking message, conveyed to me
over the weekend by a current NFL coach after it looked like all eight coaching
vacancies had been filled—while only one GM in the league got fired. (Oakland’s
Reggie McKenzie was replaced by Mike Mayock. I don’t count Baltimore, because
Ozzie Newsome’s departure was a clear retirement.) “Eight coaches fired, and
the same GMs who failed—I think in all eight jobs—hired the new coaches. Where
is the accountability for the GMs? Do they save their jobs because they’re
close with the owner and the owner is siding with the GM instead of the coach?
It seems ridiculous to me that in eight jobs, all the fault goes to the coaches
and none to the GMs. Explain that.” I can’t.
Me neither, Peter. Me neither.
Oh, another little FACT that I stumbled upon : Did you know that the current 13 season stretch of Playoff Win futility is unmatched in the HISTORY of the Vikings franchise? It's true......there has NEVER been such a prolonged stretch with such playoff incompetence. NEVER. SMH.
But I'M the crazy one for not blindly trusting the "genius" responsible for this extended run of futility to fix everything in ONE off-season. Too funny.
OK kiddies, let the personal attacks begin. I know you won't even TRY to dispute the aforementioned facts, because, well, you CAN'T. It isn't cherry-picked, it isn't twisted in any fashion whatsoever. As Parcell's famously stated : "You ARE what you're RECORD says you are". True dat, Bill. True dat.
Some points to ponder. Given what you've written...and this is actually one of the best ones you've had in a long while. It has stats. It has a reasonable argument. It has a historical comparison.
1. We'd have at least one more playoff win had Blair not sh!t the bed. Of course we'd have one less had Diggs not gotten lucky.
2. We've gone through QB hell over Rick's and now Mike's tenure. Some of it is their fault some of it isn't.
- You can blame Rick for Ponder being Ponder. With a caveat that who was he throwing to?
- You can give credit and find fault for Farve's 09 and then 10 season.
- You can't blame them for Teddy's knee imploding in no contact drilling. You can question if Teddy was the guy. - You can't blame them for trading for Bradford. I think everyone knew we had to do something. - You're welcome to question Cousins but I think its premature at this point. He statistically had one of the best years a Viking QB has EVER had.
3. Comparing the Vikings past history to current results and really future results.
- We've had a rich history of winning regular season games and making the playoffs. This skews the "worst time period ever" stat because you're comparing a very different NFL of yesteryear to today's game. For this stat to matter you'd have to compare GM/Coaching wins/playoff wins to current coaches and current GMs. Teams, schedules, injuries etc are different today then they were 10, 20 or even 40 years ago.4. If the other teams aren't firing their GM as you've stated there has to be a reason? Maybe its a good old boys club? Maybe there are only 30ish competent GMs available globally? I really don't know?? I would have to think that being a GM is about relationships as much as it is about performance?? Relationships with scouts, agents, other teams, media.
5. I want to see this team succeed as much as any fan. I don't think there's a single fan on this site who wants to see them fail? I also don't see the point in your later and previous posts calling others stupid. Its ok to disagree with you. If we all sat around circle jerking to the same ideas over and over again what would this place be? Keep posting. But do a positive one every now and then. There's got to be something the Vikings have done right over the past 15 years that was good right?
Quote: @njvike said:
@ BlackMagic7 said:
The exact opposite. I think they could care less what the outcome of the game is, as long as teams turn profit irregardless of their records (and they are). A new coach breeds excitement and curiosity. Firing your G.M. is like upending the apple cart.
Look at how we react to the notion of firing Spielman. The concept of "rebuilding" and the process of "rebuilding" has some kind of draining energy that no one wants to be a part of . I bet "the man in charge" wants nothing to do with that either, because declining interest means less money all around.
That's what I mean by "charade." It's more sarcasm and jest than anything, but the older I get watching this league the more I feel it.
Gotcha. Thanks for the civil explanation instead of personally attacking me.
Oh well. Good night and thanks for the civil reply.
anyone else just reveling in this wealth of irony?
I wish I could ignore this njvifan (really only a fan of his own opinion) but like a trainwreck on a 4x loop, it is so hard to look away. It won't change, but will just repeat on some other opinion stated as FACT!
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ njvike said:
5. I think this was a thought-provoking message, conveyed to me
over the weekend by a current NFL coach after it looked like all eight coaching
vacancies had been filled—while only one GM in the league got fired. (Oakland’s
Reggie McKenzie was replaced by Mike Mayock. I don’t count Baltimore, because
Ozzie Newsome’s departure was a clear retirement.) “Eight coaches fired, and
the same GMs who failed—I think in all eight jobs—hired the new coaches. Where
is the accountability for the GMs? Do they save their jobs because they’re
close with the owner and the owner is siding with the GM instead of the coach?
It seems ridiculous to me that in eight jobs, all the fault goes to the coaches
and none to the GMs. Explain that.” I can’t.
Me neither, Peter. Me neither.
Oh, another little FACT that I stumbled upon : Did you know that the current 13 season stretch of Playoff Win futility is unmatched in the HISTORY of the Vikings franchise? It's true......there has NEVER been such a prolonged stretch with such playoff incompetence. NEVER. SMH.
But I'M the crazy one for not blindly trusting the "genius" responsible for this extended run of futility to fix everything in ONE off-season. Too funny.
OK kiddies, let the personal attacks begin. I know you won't even TRY to dispute the aforementioned facts, because, well, you CAN'T. It isn't cherry-picked, it isn't twisted in any fashion whatsoever. As Parcell's famously stated : "You ARE what you're RECORD says you are". True dat, Bill. True dat.
Some points to ponder. Given what you've written...and this is actually one of the best ones you've had in a long while. It has stats. It has a reasonable argument. It has a historical comparison.
1. We'd have at least one more playoff win had Blair not sh!t the bed. Of course we'd have one less had Diggs not gotten lucky.
2. We've gone through QB hell over Rick's and now Mike's tenure. Some of it is their fault some of it isn't.
- You can blame Rick for Ponder being Ponder. With a caveat that who was he throwing to?
- You can give credit and find fault for Farve's 09 and then 10 season.
- You can't blame them for Teddy's knee imploding in no contact drilling. You can question if Teddy was the guy. - You can't blame them for trading for Bradford. I think everyone knew we had to do something. - You're welcome to question Cousins but I think its premature at this point. He statistically had one of the best years a Viking QB has EVER had.
3. Comparing the Vikings past history to current results and really future results.
- We've had a rich history of winning regular season games and making the playoffs. This skews the "worst time period ever" stat because you're comparing a very different NFL of yesteryear to today's game. For this stat to matter you'd have to compare GM/Coaching wins/playoff wins to current coaches and current GMs. Teams, schedules, injuries etc are different today then they were 10, 20 or even 40 years ago.4. If the other teams aren't firing their GM as you've stated there has to be a reason? Maybe its a good old boys club? Maybe there are only 30ish competent GMs available globally? I really don't know?? I would have to think that being a GM is about relationships as much as it is about performance?? Relationships with scouts, agents, other teams, media.
5. I want to see this team succeed as much as any fan. I don't think there's a single fan on this site who wants to see them fail? I also don't see the point in your later and previous posts calling others stupid. Its ok to disagree with you. If we all sat around circle jerking to the same ideas over and over again what would this place be? Keep posting. But do a positive one every now and then. There's got to be something the Vikings have done right over the past 15 years that was good right?
Nice clear response and a lot of good points. But in regard to this:
- You can't blame them for trading for Bradford. I think everyone knew we had to do something.
I can't categorically agree; they didn't have to do something, they could have let our backup QB play. At the time I liked seeing the move, but I really think trading for Bradford is probably the most controversial and impactful (negatively) decisions made during Spielman's tenure with the Vikings. It really feels like it was saying, "We MUST win NOW", and involved a large gamble of draft capital to avoid losing one season - which was lost anyway.
Quote: @BlackMagic7 said:
The exact opposite. I think they could care less what the outcome of the game is, as long as teams turn profit irregardless of their records (and they are). A new coach breeds excitement and curiosity. Firing your G.M. is like upending the apple cart.
Look at how we react to the notion of firing Spielman. The concept of "rebuilding" and the process of "rebuilding" has some kind of draining energy that no one wants to be a part of. I bet "the man in charge" wants nothing to do with that either, because declining interest means less money all around.
That's what I mean by "charade." It's more sarcasm and jest than anything, but the older I get watching this league the more I feel it.
Great observation on the likely motivations of NFL team owners. From their perspective, it would be fun to be SB Champion, but only one team per year can do it - and that team's profit is only marginally higher. Their main concern is not to be an embarrassed franchise - "Don't be the Browns" (or whoever will be the new laughingstock if Cleveland truly escapes the basement). Once in a while, an owner like Dan Snyder gets motivated to play with his toy team and really try to win. But more often than not those efforts are poor anyway.
People who care enough to post on a board like this are a tiny fraction of NFL fans - so it doesn't matter much if we think the quality of the product should be better. For most of the Wilfs' fan base, just having the word "Minnesota" in the team name is the only feature they demand.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ njvike said:
5. I think this was a thought-provoking message, conveyed to me
over the weekend by a current NFL coach after it looked like all eight coaching
vacancies had been filled—while only one GM in the league got fired. (Oakland’s
Reggie McKenzie was replaced by Mike Mayock. I don’t count Baltimore, because
Ozzie Newsome’s departure was a clear retirement.) “Eight coaches fired, and
the same GMs who failed—I think in all eight jobs—hired the new coaches. Where
is the accountability for the GMs? Do they save their jobs because they’re
close with the owner and the owner is siding with the GM instead of the coach?
It seems ridiculous to me that in eight jobs, all the fault goes to the coaches
and none to the GMs. Explain that.” I can’t.
Me neither, Peter. Me neither.
Oh, another little FACT that I stumbled upon : Did you know that the current 13 season stretch of Playoff Win futility is unmatched in the HISTORY of the Vikings franchise? It's true......there has NEVER been such a prolonged stretch with such playoff incompetence. NEVER. SMH.
But I'M the crazy one for not blindly trusting the "genius" responsible for this extended run of futility to fix everything in ONE off-season. Too funny.
OK kiddies, let the personal attacks begin. I know you won't even TRY to dispute the aforementioned facts, because, well, you CAN'T. It isn't cherry-picked, it isn't twisted in any fashion whatsoever. As Parcell's famously stated : "You ARE what you're RECORD says you are". True dat, Bill. True dat.
Some points to ponder. Given what you've written...and this is actually one of the best ones you've had in a long while. It has stats. It has a reasonable argument. It has a historical comparison.
1. We'd have at least one more playoff win had Blair not sh!t the bed. Of course we'd have one less had Diggs not gotten lucky.
2. We've gone through QB hell over Rick's and now Mike's tenure. Some of it is their fault some of it isn't.
- You can blame Rick for Ponder being Ponder. With a caveat that who was he throwing to?
- You can give credit and find fault for Farve's 09 and then 10 season.
- You can't blame them for Teddy's knee imploding in no contact drilling. You can question if Teddy was the guy. - You can't blame them for trading for Bradford. I think everyone knew we had to do something. - You're welcome to question Cousins but I think its premature at this point. He statistically had one of the best years a Viking QB has EVER had.
3. Comparing the Vikings past history to current results and really future results.
- We've had a rich history of winning regular season games and making the playoffs. This skews the "worst time period ever" stat because you're comparing a very different NFL of yesteryear to today's game. For this stat to matter you'd have to compare GM/Coaching wins/playoff wins to current coaches and current GMs. Teams, schedules, injuries etc are different today then they were 10, 20 or even 40 years ago.4. If the other teams aren't firing their GM as you've stated there has to be a reason? Maybe its a good old boys club? Maybe there are only 30ish competent GMs available globally? I really don't know?? I would have to think that being a GM is about relationships as much as it is about performance?? Relationships with scouts, agents, other teams, media.
5. I want to see this team succeed as much as any fan. I don't think there's a single fan on this site who wants to see them fail? I also don't see the point in your later and previous posts calling others stupid. Its ok to disagree with you. If we all sat around circle jerking to the same ideas over and over again what would this place be? Keep posting. But do a positive one every now and then. There's got to be something the Vikings have done right over the past 15 years that was good right?
Nice clear response and a lot of good points. But in regard to this:
- You can't blame them for trading for Bradford. I think everyone knew we had to do something.
I can't categorically agree; they didn't have to do something, they could have let our backup QB play. At the time I liked seeing the move, but I really think trading for Bradford is probably the most controversial and impactful (negatively) decisions made during Spielman's tenure with the Vikings. It really feels like it was saying, "We MUST win NOW", and involved a large gamble of draft capital to avoid losing one season - which was lost anyway.
No doubt about it!! Looking back the Bradford trade SCREWED us hard but at the time I think it was the best thing.
I have to add something that just popped into my head about our playoffs. In 09 and 18 we were the 2nd seed......which royally screws the playoff wins/appearances statistics in my mind.
Do we just wipe out the fact that they finished 2nd and thus had one less game against an opponent they likely would have smashed???? Or at the very least missed a sure thing FG to win one lol..........
Anyway, I'd say you almost have to give the Vikings an extra win in both those years since they got a bye don't you???? Thoughts?
Quote: @njvike said:
The Wilf's are FOCUSED primarily on making their "investment" as profitable as possible. I've actually been in several meetings with Mark and can tell you from first hand experience, PROFIT is the prime driver in ALL decisions they make.
I've no doubt that the Wilf's THINK that they want a SB Championship, but the bottom line will trump that every single time. It kinda explains their willingness to ""Stick with Rick". The profits keep rolling in, the Vikings aren't the worst team, and, unfortunately, the vocal minority of fans seem to think that Richard "2 outta 13" Spielman is a GREAT GM.
Oh well. Good night and thanks for the civil reply.
You've been in meetings with Mark Wilf? About what?
As for 13 years, it's actually 14 years of Wilf ownership that marks the down period. They snooker the fanbase with their "we want to win, we're big fans" rhetoric which is not reflected in the events on the field most of the time.
They fiddled around with bad hires and the stupid t.o.a. and now that they have relative competence since 2012 in RS, fans want his head all the time. They don't think about the real possibility that it could get a lot worse than being competitive which we are now mostly, given the Wilf's propensity to make terrible shoot from the hip hires--see Foley, Chili, Les--all hired without interviewing so much as a single other candidate or really doing any serious homework or even engaging themselves in a serious thought process. Imagine their next g.m. hire on that basis... then you will have someone new to perpetually gripe about.
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