Quote: @AGRforever said:
Nobody has put it in this thread. XR went from probably the best CB in the leauge to average at best this year. Im not sure how he doesnt have more votes? Last year you could count on half the field being shut down and this allowed Smith to freelance and shift coverages etc. It made the entire team work last year. This year he was a major let down.
I think XR was just hurt a bunch this year and regressed. I still think he can be premier at his position.
Linval and EG? Not sure i feel the same about them - and those were really big knockers for us. Thats 50% of the DL.
Elflein has to improve for us as a team to improve - and I thought we had C figured out for a long-time after his rook season.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
Nobody has put it in this thread. XR went from probably the best CB in the leauge to average at best this year. Im not sure how he doesnt have more votes? Last year you could count on half the field being shut down and this allowed Smith to freelance and shift coverages etc. It made the entire team work last year. This year he was a major let down.
I think XR was just hurt a bunch this year and regressed. I still think he can be premier at his position.
Linval and EG? Not sure i feel the same about them - and those were really big knockers for us. Thats 50% of the DL.
Elflein has to improve for us as a team to improve - and I thought we had C figured out for a long-time after his rook season.
I think the new enforcement of the illegal contact rules hurt Rhodes early on in his ability to redirect the routes off the line of scrimmage. in the past he was very physical with the receivers but now without being able to "body" them off their routes he is more limited, also the injuries were certainly a factor.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
I think they are paying him to much to use him as a role player, if he is going to be making 10-13 million per year over the next few years, he needs to be able to play a lot of snaps, if he is only going to be out there for half the snaps, he really needs to take a pay cut so we can afford to put a quality player in his place.
Agreed. And that is why his contract is structured as it is because most older players with larger deals and declining play get that conversation from the GM about restructuring.
For me, knowing full well they need to address the offensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is there at #18 then from a salary cap perspective and talent perspective he could be a very good addition and the future nose for the Vikings.
Then, I would be super aggressive in the 2nd (i.e., trading up and using future picks if necessary) to go get the first offensive lineman. In the 3rd round I would repeat this formula if necessary.
he still carries about 3.6 million in dead money in 19, that is a lot to eat if he doesnt cooperate, last year I would have said that all these defensive guys have "unfinished business" and would be more receptive to restructuring, but after the way this year ended and the way the spielman did BRob.. I have to wonder if they will be as willing to take a cut to stay here or will want to take their chances with FA. I am sure that their agents are already having wink and nod conversations with other teams to gauge their clients worth if they were to play hardball.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
I think they are paying him to much to use him as a role player, if he is going to be making 10-13 million per year over the next few years, he needs to be able to play a lot of snaps, if he is only going to be out there for half the snaps, he really needs to take a pay cut so we can afford to put a quality player in his place.
Agreed. And that is why his contract is structured as it is because most older players with larger deals and declining play get that conversation from the GM about restructuring.
For me, knowing full well they need to address the offensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is there at #18 then from a salary cap perspective and talent perspective he could be a very good addition and the future nose for the Vikings.
Then, I would be super aggressive in the 2nd (i.e., trading up and using future picks if necessary) to go get the first offensive lineman. In the 3rd round I would repeat this formula if necessary.
he still carries about 3.6 million in dead money in 19, that is a lot to eat if he doesnt cooperate, last year I would have said that all these defensive guys have "unfinished business" and would be more receptive to restructuring, but after the way this year ended and the way the spielman did BRob.. I have to wonder if they will be as willing to take a cut to stay here or will want to take their chances with FA. I am sure that their agents are already having wink and nod conversations with other teams to gauge their clients worth if they were to play hardball.
I am looking to 2020 before I would consider cutting or trading Joseph. But they need to get a guy like Lawrence now to groom and make that decision easier IMHO.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
I think they are paying him to much to use him as a role player, if he is going to be making 10-13 million per year over the next few years, he needs to be able to play a lot of snaps, if he is only going to be out there for half the snaps, he really needs to take a pay cut so we can afford to put a quality player in his place.
Agreed. And that is why his contract is structured as it is because most older players with larger deals and declining play get that conversation from the GM about restructuring.
For me, knowing full well they need to address the offensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is there at #18 then from a salary cap perspective and talent perspective he could be a very good addition and the future nose for the Vikings.
Then, I would be super aggressive in the 2nd (i.e., trading up and using future picks if necessary) to go get the first offensive lineman. In the 3rd round I would repeat this formula if necessary.
he still carries about 3.6 million in dead money in 19, that is a lot to eat if he doesnt cooperate, last year I would have said that all these defensive guys have "unfinished business" and would be more receptive to restructuring, but after the way this year ended and the way the spielman did BRob.. I have to wonder if they will be as willing to take a cut to stay here or will want to take their chances with FA. I am sure that their agents are already having wink and nod conversations with other teams to gauge their clients worth if they were to play hardball.
I am looking to 2020 before I would consider cutting or trading Joseph. But they need to get a guy like Lawrence now to groom and make that decision easier IMHO.
with him only playing about half the snap in an ideal situation to keep him fresh enough to be effective, IMO they have to look at restructuring him this year regardless of who they have coming in behind him. OL help has to come via FA and that is going to be expensive. I would still invest in OL in the draft early, but I am not willing to go into next year with 2 new rookie OG, and I am not at all willing to go into next year with Remmer or Compton as their back up plans, as far as Jones and Isisdora, if they couldnt replace Compton and Remmers... why were they even on the team?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
I think they are paying him to much to use him as a role player, if he is going to be making 10-13 million per year over the next few years, he needs to be able to play a lot of snaps, if he is only going to be out there for half the snaps, he really needs to take a pay cut so we can afford to put a quality player in his place.
Agreed. And that is why his contract is structured as it is because most older players with larger deals and declining play get that conversation from the GM about restructuring.
For me, knowing full well they need to address the offensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is there at #18 then from a salary cap perspective and talent perspective he could be a very good addition and the future nose for the Vikings.
Then, I would be super aggressive in the 2nd (i.e., trading up and using future picks if necessary) to go get the first offensive lineman. In the 3rd round I would repeat this formula if necessary.
he still carries about 3.6 million in dead money in 19, that is a lot to eat if he doesnt cooperate, last year I would have said that all these defensive guys have "unfinished business" and would be more receptive to restructuring, but after the way this year ended and the way the spielman did BRob.. I have to wonder if they will be as willing to take a cut to stay here or will want to take their chances with FA. I am sure that their agents are already having wink and nod conversations with other teams to gauge their clients worth if they were to play hardball.
I am looking to 2020 before I would consider cutting or trading Joseph. But they need to get a guy like Lawrence now to groom and make that decision easier IMHO.
with him only playing about half the snap in an ideal situation to keep him fresh enough to be effective, IMO they have to look at restructuring him this year regardless of who they have coming in behind him. OL help has to come via FA and that is going to be expensive. I would still invest in OL in the draft early, but I am not willing to go into next year with 2 new rookie OG, and I am not at all willing to go into next year with Remmer or Compton as their back up plans, as far as Jones and Isisdora, if they couldnt replace Compton and Remmers... why were they even on the team?
Gonna be tough to find a free agent guard but maybe a Roger Saffold who might be pricey or Andy Levitre who could be less expensive.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
I think they are paying him to much to use him as a role player, if he is going to be making 10-13 million per year over the next few years, he needs to be able to play a lot of snaps, if he is only going to be out there for half the snaps, he really needs to take a pay cut so we can afford to put a quality player in his place.
Agreed. And that is why his contract is structured as it is because most older players with larger deals and declining play get that conversation from the GM about restructuring.
For me, knowing full well they need to address the offensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is there at #18 then from a salary cap perspective and talent perspective he could be a very good addition and the future nose for the Vikings.
Then, I would be super aggressive in the 2nd (i.e., trading up and using future picks if necessary) to go get the first offensive lineman. In the 3rd round I would repeat this formula if necessary.
he still carries about 3.6 million in dead money in 19, that is a lot to eat if he doesnt cooperate, last year I would have said that all these defensive guys have "unfinished business" and would be more receptive to restructuring, but after the way this year ended and the way the spielman did BRob.. I have to wonder if they will be as willing to take a cut to stay here or will want to take their chances with FA. I am sure that their agents are already having wink and nod conversations with other teams to gauge their clients worth if they were to play hardball.
I am looking to 2020 before I would consider cutting or trading Joseph. But they need to get a guy like Lawrence now to groom and make that decision easier IMHO.
with him only playing about half the snap in an ideal situation to keep him fresh enough to be effective, IMO they have to look at restructuring him this year regardless of who they have coming in behind him. OL help has to come via FA and that is going to be expensive. I would still invest in OL in the draft early, but I am not willing to go into next year with 2 new rookie OG, and I am not at all willing to go into next year with Remmer or Compton as their back up plans, as far as Jones and Isisdora, if they couldnt replace Compton and Remmers... why were they even on the team?
Gonna be tough to find a free agent guard but maybe a Roger Saffold who might be pricey or Andy Levitre who could be less expensive.
I think they need to resign Easton, its going to need to be a friendly for both type of deal with him coming back from the next injury, other than that they need to spend what ever it takes... or trade Cousins away because he is useless with pressure in his face, you could see all year that he wanted to step up in the pocket, but it was so rarely there he couldnt trust it when he needed it. i am disappointed in Cousins, but nearly as much as others and certainly not as disappointed as I am in how our OL ended up looking.
I picked Griff. I thought he'd have a monster year coming off the foot injury, but things went from bad to worse for him. Not sure he'll ever be an impact team leader again.
The other guy not on the list that I'd pick is Richardson. He's average to slightly above average. I was hoping for the next "Kevin Williams" type of player when we signed him. He's not anywhere near KW in his prime.
LJ was hurt and that really limited his effectiveness. Rhodes was disappointing as well, seemed to be hurt quite a bit. I didn't expect that much from Remmers, so he was what he was.
But it was Cousins that sank the ship the last few weeks. His inability to throw the ball until mid 2nd quarter was baffling. He stared at the rush, held the ball and then thought he was Russel Wilson and could scramble around and make plays. He killed the offense in the beginning of the games, left the D on the field too long and then just as inexplicably, he started playing like he should and the offense was able to move the ball. But it was too late, our D was gassed, the other team had the momentum, the margin for error was too small and the opposing D was smelling blood.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I went with Linval -- he wasn't the same this year.
I got to go with LJ as well, his reason for being is to make it tough to run up the middle on this defense and he couldn't do that, also Richardson wasn't nearly as impactful as I had anticipated. I expected OL issues after all the injuries in preseason, and for that to affect what we could do on offense, but I didn't expect our DLine to be so inconsistent and ineffective.
I agree to an extent. Zimmer still is playing him too much IMO. Here are the snaps played this year for the DL ...
Player | Total Snaps | Def Snaps | Def Snap Pct | ST Snaps | ST Snap Pct
99-D.Hunter | 1023 | 877 | 84.4% | 146 | 32.7%
93-S.Richardson | 779 | 718 | 69.1% | 61 | 13.6%
98-L.Joseph | 721 | 669 | 64.4% | 52 | 11.6%
91-S.Weatherly | 652 | 523 | 50.3% | 129 | 28.9%
97-E.Griffen | 635 | 584 | 56.2% | 51 | 11.4%
96-T.Johnson | 368 | 342 | 32.9% | 26 | 5.8%
94-J.Johnson | 295 | 261 | 25.1% | 34 | 7.6%
92-J.Holmes | 58 | 58 | 5.6% | 0 | 0.0%
95-D.Parry | 58 | 50 | 4.8% | 8 | 1.8%
90-T.Bower | 56 | 53 | 5.1% | 3 | 0.7%
... Joseph played 664 snaps last year. He will be 31 next October so I think that they should lessen his snaps and get someone they trust to be his backup and let that person play more.
I guess Jaleel Johnson is the backup but I thought he was a 3 technique coming out of college. Not many scouting reports pegged him as a nose tackle or 1 technique.
Thanks for putting some stats on this. I think I noted a couple of times during the season about seeing Linval in on second or third and long. Made no sense to me especially given all of Zimmer's comments about wanting a better DL rotation.
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