Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Where is this Cousins and game manager coming from? Maybe I'm still in a stupor from anesthesia, but the guy has been a hell of a lot more gun-slinger imo.
The KC we're seeing the last few weeks I GUARANTEE is is Zimmer-ball influenced and comes right from the head-coach to Stefanski.
Add on top of that the shi t OL effect? Toxicity
This sure sounds like an apology for KC post and that's not my intent. He's not perfect. I think it's interesting how I see our best QB since Favre and others see a game manager.
at times he is more and at times he is less... i have seen the gunslinger, I have seen Case Keenum 2.0, I have seen some Ponderesque moments as well... I want to see a 28 million dollar QB on a lot more consistent basis. He needs to use his legs more to keep the pursuit guessing, his lack of showing mobility in and out of the pocket is concerning. yes he is our best QB by some statistics since Favre, but lets not pretend that bar has been set very high since then. I dont expect a top 3 QB, but I would like to see more Favre and less WTF going forward.
A lot of the WTF comes from the offensive line. I'm not ready to mail in this season, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do if we can overhaul the line this offseason and give him consistent, reliable protection. I know, it's always "one more thing" with this team. But reliable protection is one thing holding this team back. People often say "well he had good protection on that play and still missed his receiver." But you can't just get good protection every now and then. If you can count on good protection "most" of the time, it has a huge impact on a QB's consistency.
Over 4100 yards, 29 TD's, 10 picks, 278 yards /game and a 101 QB rating. That is not a game manager. The Vikings game manager is in Denver, 3600 yards, 240 /game, 17 TD, 14 picks with a rating of 81.4. Does anybody still want Keenum back for 20 million a year ?
Flip always thought he could win with Cousins arm. Cousins hasn't been that guy, especially in the big moments. He's inconsistent. The formula for this offense is a run game with play action passing. If Cousins throws 40 times, the Vikings will lose.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Where is this Cousins and game manager coming from? Maybe I'm still in a stupor from anesthesia, but the guy has been a hell of a lot more gun-slinger imo.
The KC we're seeing the last few weeks I GUARANTEE is is Zimmer-ball influenced and comes right from the head-coach to Stefanski.
Add on top of that the shi t OL effect? Toxicity
This sure sounds like an apology for KC post and that's not my intent. He's not perfect. I think it's interesting how I see our best QB since Favre and others see a game manager.
There have been some games where he seems to be a game manager and there are games where he seems to do more. Sometimes he has great stats and sometimes he turtles up. Of course the OL is a factor as well as the play calling but he needs to step up. He needs to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack. Sometimes he holds the ball too long. They need a better ROI in order to get to the next level. He doesn't get a pass.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Where is this Cousins and game manager coming from? Maybe I'm still in a stupor from anesthesia, but the guy has been a hell of a lot more gun-slinger imo.
The KC we're seeing the last few weeks I GUARANTEE is is Zimmer-ball influenced and comes right from the head-coach to Stefanski.
Add on top of that the shi t OL effect? Toxicity
This sure sounds like an apology for KC post and that's not my intent. He's not perfect. I think it's interesting how I see our best QB since Favre and others see a game manager.
There have been some games where he seems to be a game manager and there are games where he seems to do more. Sometimes he has great stats and sometimes he turtles up. Of course the OL is a factor as well as the play calling but he needs to step up. He needs to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack. Sometimes he holds the ball too long. They need a better ROI in order to get to the next level. He doesn't get a pass.
This, there are just to many times that I see plays that should be made and he makes the wrong decision. I am not trying to sound like I am baggin on him or that I wanted keenum instead, but I am expecting more for 28 million a year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Where is this Cousins and game manager coming from? Maybe I'm still in a stupor from anesthesia, but the guy has been a hell of a lot more gun-slinger imo.
The KC we're seeing the last few weeks I GUARANTEE is is Zimmer-ball influenced and comes right from the head-coach to Stefanski.
Add on top of that the shi t OL effect? Toxicity
This sure sounds like an apology for KC post and that's not my intent. He's not perfect. I think it's interesting how I see our best QB since Favre and others see a game manager.
at times he is more and at times he is less... i have seen the gunslinger, I have seen Case Keenum 2.0, I have seen some Ponderesque moments as well... I want to see a 28 million dollar QB on a lot more consistent basis. He needs to use his legs more to keep the pursuit guessing, his lack of showing mobility in and out of the pocket is concerning. yes he is our best QB by some statistics since Favre, but lets not pretend that bar has been set very high since then. I dont expect a top 3 QB, but I would like to see more Favre and less WTF going forward.
A lot of the WTF comes from the offensive line. I'm not ready to mail in this season, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do if we can overhaul the line this offseason and give him consistent, reliable protection. I know, it's always "one more thing" with this team. But reliable protection is one thing holding this team back. People often say "well he had good protection on that play and still missed his receiver." But you can't just get good protection every now and then. If you can count on good protection "most" of the time, it has a huge impact on a QB's consistency.
yes it does, and you know you are preaching to the choir when it comes to line play, but there are things that I still expect to see out of a franchise guy that I am not seeing. some of the decision making at critical times is less than desirable. he needs to learn to anticipate, see, and feel, real pressure better and get rid of the ball safely. I am pretty sure all those backwards passes were not by design. with a big pay check comes big expectations and as of yet Kirk isnt consistently meeting those for me.
I am not completely sold on Cousins yet, and people can bash Keenum all they want, but last year at this time the Vikings were 12-3 and today they are 8-6-1. The Vikings will also have to score 32 points this week to match their point total from last year. I really hope I'm wrong, but last year I felt a leadership and calming presence on the field that I really haven't felt from Cousins this year. Keenum's game is also much better suited to this horrendous offensive line than Kirk's is, so I wouldn't be so quick to call the decision to move on a successful one.
Regardless, I still really want to see what Sloter has. In a perfect world, Sloter brings Kirk's arm talent, but also has Keenum's mobility, fire and leadership qualities. But it only seems to work out that way across the border in GB, not in MN.
Quote: @Purple Haze said:
Over 4100 yards, 29 TD's, 10 picks, 278 yards /game and a 101 QB rating. That is not a game manager. The Vikings game manager is in Denver, 3600 yards, 240 /game, 17 TD, 14 picks with a rating of 81.4. Does anybody still want Keenum back for 20 million a year ?
stats in a vacuum are worthless.... if you want to use stats, look at his individual game numbers and tell me you dont see a game manage type results in some of those games? he has had some real impressive games, but by the numbers he has had quite a few games where you wonder who was under center. 7 games under 250 yards, only 5 over 300 (the ol "good" QB benchmark), 5 games with multiple turnovers (17 total)
I am not trying to shit on the effort, but I am not sure we are seeing a 28 million dollar performance week in and week out or even more often than not. He has it in him to be one of the best in the game, I want to see a more consistent effort and to see him prove to be more of what we expect in a franchise type player.
I hear you about stats but that is all there really is to judge by unless you really get deep into it. Tom Brady has few touchdowns, more interceptions, 2 games under 200 yards passing and only 5 over 300 like Cousins and zero over 400 unlike Cousins. So does that make Brady a game manager ? But there again the numbers don't tell the whole story. As for the turnovers on the N.O. pick six Diggs quit on the route he admitted as much. Rudy totally missed a block on another pick six in the Miami game. On the fumbles, especially the Buffalo game I give the O-Line a lot of the blame. All that being said I think where he gets all of the blame is his hanging onto the ball too long. I wish he would just throw the ball away and live to play another down on a lot plays. Fans are getting too hung up on the money he is being paid. Thats just the trend of the NFL. Big Ben signed his contract for 21.8 a year in 2015, Eli Manning 21 million in 2015, then in 2016 Luck signs for 24.6 million a year, then comes Stafford in 2017 signing for 27 million a year, then in 2018 Cousins for 28, then Ryan for 30, then Rogers for 34. Teams either have to pay that amount or you get the Case Keenums of the world for 20 million. I don't really disagree with you for the most part, I just don't see another option that the Vikings could have went with and still had a playoff caliber team.
Quote: @Purple Haze said:
I hear you about stats but that is all there really is to judge by unless you really get deep into it. Tom Brady has few touchdowns, more interceptions, 2 games under 200 yards passing and only 5 over 300 like Cousins and zero over 400 unlike Cousins. So does that make Brady a game manager ? But there again the numbers don't tell the whole story. As for the turnovers on the N.O. pick six Diggs quit on the route he admitted as much. Rudy totally missed a block on another pick six in the Miami game. On the fumbles, especially the Buffalo game I give the O-Line a lot of the blame. All that being said I think where he gets all of the blame is his hanging onto the ball too long. I wish he would just throw the ball away and live to play another down on a lot plays. Fans are getting too hung up on the money he is being paid. Thats just the trend of the NFL. Big Ben signed his contract for 21.8 a year in 2015, Eli Manning 21 million in 2015, then in 2016 Luck signs for 24.6 million a year, then comes Stafford in 2017 signing for 27 million a year, then in 2018 Cousins for 28, then Ryan for 30, then Rogers for 34. Teams either have to pay that amount or you get the Case Keenums of the world for 20 million. I don't really disagree with you for the most part, I just don't see another option that the Vikings could have went with and still had a playoff caliber team.
case keenum with a horse shoe had them in the playoffs with what he had around him, Cousins merely making the playoffs (remains to be seen) wasnt an acceptable goal for me going into this year. yes the schedule was tougher, and yes the team had set backs, but Cousins came with higher expectation and now that we arent where we expected to be we start to make excuses? I give him some slack but he is either a top tier QB or he isnt and if he isnt then he shouldnt be paid like one regardless of what else was available. I think he has better football in him than what we are seeing.
as far as comparing him to brady... one is 29 the other is like 41 or something, also people are all talking about how far brady has fallen this year and wondering if he should hang it up.
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