Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
KB glad you brought that up. You guys don't know me but I have a degree in German and Marketing. Studied at 2 German universities, studied Hitler's speeches and rise of Nazism extensively. I lived and worked there for Adidas for several years in Nuernberg. The parallels are what frightens the entire world, they know how it started in Germany. First it was the attack on the Luegepress calling them liars and being anti-German, then blaming the Democrat party, then the demonizing of Jews and immigrants who were deported before they sealed them off to prevent escape. The speeches written by Goebbels were all ultranationalist Germany first, they blamed the Jews, Democrats and other countries for losing WW1. In 10-15 years they changed the hearts and minds of millions of reasonable people and were voted in. Nazi rise to power wasn't violent, it was propaganda poisoning the minds of reasonable people. But they controlled the papers and radio, here we have a choice ... yet people here willingly buy into this cult propaganda. That's what terrifies me the most.
Many of my German friends are warning of the anxiety that Trump is spreading throughout Europe. We are nearing a crossroads and I fear we are too far down the wrong path to get some people back.
Interesting post. Free of sermonizing and condescension.
The Wa-Po ran a piece on the subject. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...edirect=on&utm_term=.17f2818856b1
2 main reasons most Germans are reluctant to compare Trump to Hitler? ( Godwin's Law)
1) Geo-political history VERY different
2) Comparing anyone to Hitler is a factual conversation ender.
BTW, you and Kanye have much in common with Adidas 
https://solecollector.com/news/2018/06/k...pes-lyrics
Something to build on. Or Runaway from.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
I'm glad you accept Trump's comments that an American reporter started a brawl with 15 Saudis who happen to bring a bone saw to Turkey.
Jamal Kashoggi was not an American reporter.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/103...st-remains
It's horrible what happened to him, but he was a Saudi on Saudi soil (Turkish consulate).
Those facts have to weighed considering the immediate Trump response. It's been a couple days with further facts.
I think the Trump response has gotten tougher, with subsequent days.
Would you join me in demanding that west coast tech giants (Are you S(an)F(ran)VikeFan or S(ioux) F(alls)VikeFan?) Google & Amazon renounce all plans ( https://deadline.com/2018/02/google-pare...202276115/) on huge pending multi-million dollar projects with the House of Saud and MBS?
The loss of that project would be a huge loss to Google & Amazon. But.... the right thing to do....right?
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
You had Clinton impeached because he lied about a fucking affair. Jesus, imagine if that same standard held true today you could take your pick about which lie and which affair with Trump. Oh but now it's different ... 20 years later it's the GOP who changed YOUR tunes to suit your new agenda.
No... Clinton was impeached for lying before a federal grand jury investigating a valid claim of sexual harassment. (You know, that topic that Dems feel so passionately about)
That grand jury was empaneled to investigate a valid workplace sexual harassment suit brought by Paula Jones.
He testified NOT about 'sex'...but about sexual harassment.
Are you saying that Ms Jones didn't deserve her day of honest testimony in court?
(Now.... I might agree with you whether a sitting President can be subject to civil/criminal investigation... but Clinton agreed/compromised to the taped GJ interview, so waived that
Constitutional question to another day)
Quote: @StickyBun said:
My disconnect comes from those that cannot or will not recognize what kind of shit person Trump is personally. He's a despicable individual.
This seems to be a common refrain. 'The problem is not so much Trump...but the people (idiots) who support him."
The Real Reason They Hate TrumpHe’s the average American in exaggerated form—blunt, simple, willing to fight, mistrustful of intellectuals. 3653 CommentsBy David Gelernter Oct. 21, 2018 3:01 p.m. ET
link
Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America’s international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don’t seek to be loved, seek to be feared.
The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party’s intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says “Empty.” The left is beaten.
This has happened before, in the 1980s and ’90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.
For now, though, the left’s only issue is “We hate Trump.” This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.
Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump’s vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.
Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.
But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don’t find myself losing sleep over it.
The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.
Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.
Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that’s obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)
This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?
True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn’t choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It’s discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.
Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.
Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.
Mr. Gelernter is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC. His most recent book is “Tides of Mind.”
Appeared in the October 22, 2018, print edition.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ KingBash said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
He's keeping his promises that
he ran on and that's what his base likes about him most. I know it's
hard for people to grasp that, as politicians normally don't try to keep
their promises.
Turn off Fox News. He's not keeping his promises. Jesus, do ANY fact checking.
TURN OFF FOX NEWS.
So no promises kept? None? Hmmmm Let me check that....
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter...umpometer/
Whoops... I see some promises kept. 14 of them even... Broken is 8. Compromise is 7(I'd like to see this number higher). 40 are in the works and 33 stalled . So you see, he is keeping promises, otherwise that "kept" number would be 0. That's how counting works.
Perhaps I should've said he's blown it way more often than not. Unfortunately, lots of the promises he did keep in your link are ones just to appease he idiot base.
Yeah, this is admittedly a liberal site, but all the points look factual. I'm citing it because the majority of it was shit I actually cared about, things a) I'm GLAD he didn't keep or b) I wanted him to actually pay attention to... but he was too busy golfing (after saying he'd be too busy to golf when he was elected... remember that? So cute.) Isn't that what the topic was? Promises that he ran on? Come on man... at least READ my shit! =)
He golfs way to much and it stops him from getting more of his shit done. You should be glad he's golfing.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
He's keeping his promises that
he ran on and that's what his base likes about him most. I know it's
hard for people to grasp that, as politicians normally don't try to keep
their promises.
Turn off Fox News. He's not keeping his promises. Jesus, do ANY fact checking.
TURN OFF FOX NEWS.
Does this mean Mexico isn't paying for the wall? That Obamacare wasn't repealed and replace with better and cheaper alternatives?
Like I've said before, trump is a symptom...
Quote: @savannahskol said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
KB glad you brought that up. You guys don't know me but I have a degree in German and Marketing. Studied at 2 German universities, studied Hitler's speeches and rise of Nazism extensively. I lived and worked there for Adidas for several years in Nuernberg. The parallels are what frightens the entire world, they know how it started in Germany. First it was the attack on the Luegepress calling them liars and being anti-German, then blaming the Democrat party, then the demonizing of Jews and immigrants who were deported before they sealed them off to prevent escape. The speeches written by Goebbels were all ultranationalist Germany first, they blamed the Jews, Democrats and other countries for losing WW1. In 10-15 years they changed the hearts and minds of millions of reasonable people and were voted in. Nazi rise to power wasn't violent, it was propaganda poisoning the minds of reasonable people. But they controlled the papers and radio, here we have a choice ... yet people here willingly buy into this cult propaganda. That's what terrifies me the most.
Many of my German friends are warning of the anxiety that Trump is spreading throughout Europe. We are nearing a crossroads and I fear we are too far down the wrong path to get some people back.
Interesting post. Free of sermonizing and condescension.
The Wa-Po ran a piece on the subject. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...edirect=on&utm_term=.17f2818856b1
2 main reasons most Germans are reluctant to compare Trump to Hitler? ( Godwin's Law)
1) Geo-political history VERY different
2) Comparing anyone to Hitler is a factual conversation ender.
BTW, you and Kanye have much in common with Adidas
https://solecollector.com/news/2018/06/k...pes-lyrics
Something to build on. Or Runaway from.
Savannah, I can tell you that I know and keep in touch with hundreds of German friends from university and work. While not everyone would compare him to Hitler for obvious reasons - and I wasn't comparing him to Hilter himself more the parallels to the rise of Nazism - they ALL agree they see the parallels of what's going on here vs. the 1930s Germany. The biggest is the attack on the press. That was the first step, the Luegenpress allowed Nazis and now Trump to question everyone's reality and perception of facts and truth ... by far the most dangerous. Then came the nationalism, then the lies. But everything starts with the media attacks. And to what degree they dislike Trump, hate him or just think he's a useful idiot for the Russians, every last one of them thinks he's dangerous and leading America down a very dangerous path. They already feel that Americans are mostly un-educated, gullible, and quite frankly ... stupid. They're not wrong in my opinion.
And again you're missing the point about Trump and what Germans think about him. Nobody thinks he's leading us down the path of genocide. What Germans do agree is the attacks on the media are going to lead people astray. That he'll change the hearts and minds of reasonable people to swallow bullshit, to believe lies, to not see through nationalistic propaganda, to convince people to support acts of cruelty and inhumane treatment of others. "He's just telling it like it is" - how many times do we hear that? AKA, it's okay to believe Muslims are terrorists so we need a Muslim ban, Mexicans are rapists and murderers so we need to build the wall, the left is violent and inciting riots because they dared to say "be uncivil, push back" ... so the left deserves to be assaulted and Hillary deserves to be blown up. See where this is going? FEAR-MONGERING.
That's what terrifies the Germans and Europeans in general. Reasonable American people have become gullible and have become so tribal, so deeply rooted in defending their party that they can no longer be objective or call out their own BS. And if you don't believe me, read the FaceBook comments by GOP supporters on yesterday's mail bomb attacks. FAR too many people are already convinced this is another "false flag" operation done by the Dems to themselves.
Germany's solution after WW2: Drag the mayors, the townspeople to the concentration camps. They were forced to see the bodies, the graves. Step 2 was united healthcare and education, everyone equal, healthcare and education for everyone not just the rich. Education was critical. It squashed the ability to deny the holocaust for the future generations that didn't witness it. That's what we lack, the education. Red state voters aren't usually college grads, well-informed or use other sources of news outside their echo chambers. There's a growing resentment against educated, smart people. So they only hear what they want, it gets repeated for years, and this is the result .... millions now believe conspiracy theories. From Fox News to Breitbart to Q, I don't know how we save a large number of GOP supporters trapped in their own circles of insanity.
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
@ KingBash said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ KingBash said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
He's keeping his promises that
he ran on and that's what his base likes about him most. I know it's
hard for people to grasp that, as politicians normally don't try to keep
their promises.
Turn off Fox News. He's not keeping his promises. Jesus, do ANY fact checking.
TURN OFF FOX NEWS.
So no promises kept? None? Hmmmm Let me check that....
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter...umpometer/
Whoops... I see some promises kept. 14 of them even... Broken is 8. Compromise is 7(I'd like to see this number higher). 40 are in the works and 33 stalled . So you see, he is keeping promises, otherwise that "kept" number would be 0. That's how counting works.
Perhaps I should've said he's blown it way more often than not. Unfortunately, lots of the promises he did keep in your link are ones just to appease he idiot base.
Yeah, this is admittedly a liberal site, but all the points look factual. I'm citing it because the majority of it was shit I actually cared about, things a) I'm GLAD he didn't keep or b) I wanted him to actually pay attention to... but he was too busy golfing (after saying he'd be too busy to golf when he was elected... remember that? So cute.) Isn't that what the topic was? Promises that he ran on? Come on man... at least READ my shit! =)
He golfs way to much and it stops him from getting more of his shit done. You should be glad he's golfing.
We're lucky his divisive rhetoric didn't get people killed yesterday and that's your take. "Bummer he golfs so much or he'd be more successful?"
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ savannahskol said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
KB glad you brought that up. You guys don't know me but I have a degree in German and Marketing. Studied at 2 German universities, studied Hitler's speeches and rise of Nazism extensively. I lived and worked there for Adidas for several years in Nuernberg. The parallels are what frightens the entire world, they know how it started in Germany. First it was the attack on the Luegepress calling them liars and being anti-German, then blaming the Democrat party, then the demonizing of Jews and immigrants who were deported before they sealed them off to prevent escape. The speeches written by Goebbels were all ultranationalist Germany first, they blamed the Jews, Democrats and other countries for losing WW1. In 10-15 years they changed the hearts and minds of millions of reasonable people and were voted in. Nazi rise to power wasn't violent, it was propaganda poisoning the minds of reasonable people. But they controlled the papers and radio, here we have a choice ... yet people here willingly buy into this cult propaganda. That's what terrifies me the most.
Many of my German friends are warning of the anxiety that Trump is spreading throughout Europe. We are nearing a crossroads and I fear we are too far down the wrong path to get some people back.
Interesting post. Free of sermonizing and condescension.
The Wa-Po ran a piece on the subject. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...edirect=on&utm_term=.17f2818856b1
2 main reasons most Germans are reluctant to compare Trump to Hitler? ( Godwin's Law)
1) Geo-political history VERY different
2) Comparing anyone to Hitler is a factual conversation ender.
BTW, you and Kanye have much in common with Adidas
https://solecollector.com/news/2018/06/k...pes-lyrics
Something to build on. Or Runaway from.
Savannah, I can tell you that I know and keep in touch with hundreds of German friends from university and work. While not everyone would compare him to Hitler for obvious reasons - and I wasn't comparing him to Hilter himself more the parallels to the rise of Nazism - they ALL agree they see the parallels of what's going on here vs. the 1930s Germany. The biggest is the attack on the press. That was the first step, the Luegenpress allowed Nazis and now Trump to question everyone's reality and perception of facts and truth ... by far the most dangerous. Then came the nationalism, then the lies. But everything starts with the media attacks. And to what degree they dislike Trump, hate him or just think he's a useful idiot for the Russians, every last one of them thinks he's dangerous and leading America down a very dangerous path. They already feel that Americans are mostly un-educated, gullible, and quite frankly ... stupid. They're not wrong in my opinion.
And again you're missing the point about Trump and what Germans think about him. Nobody thinks he's leading us down the path of genocide. What Germans do agree is the attacks on the media are going to lead people astray. That he'll change the hearts and minds of reasonable people to swallow bullshit, to believe lies, to not see through nationalistic propaganda, to convince people to support acts of cruelty and inhumane treatment of others. "He's just telling it like it is" - how many times do we hear that? AKA, it's okay to believe Muslims are terrorists so we need a Muslim ban, Mexicans are rapists and murderers so we need to build the wall, the left is violent and inciting riots because they dared to say "be uncivil, push back" ... so the left deserves to be assaulted and Hillary deserves to be blown up. See where this is going? FEAR-MONGERING.
That's what terrifies the Germans and Europeans in general. Reasonable American people have become gullible and have become so tribal, so deeply rooted in defending their party that they can no longer be objective or call out their own BS. And if you don't believe me, read the FaceBook comments by GOP supporters on yesterday's mail bomb attacks. FAR too many people are already convinced this is another "false flag" operation done by the Dems to themselves.
Germany's solution after WW2: Drag the mayors, the townspeople to the concentration camps. They were forced to see the bodies, the graves. Step 2 was united healthcare and education, everyone equal, healthcare and education for everyone not just the rich. Education was critical. It squashed the ability to deny the holocaust for the future generations that didn't witness it. That's what we lack, the education. Red state voters aren't usually college grads, well-informed or use other sources of news outside their echo chambers. There's a growing resentment against educated, smart people. So they only hear what they want, it gets repeated for years, and this is the result .... millions now believe conspiracy theories. From Fox News to Breitbart to Q, I don't know how we save a large number of GOP supporters trapped in their own circles of insanity.
"Telling it like it is." There's a great video on the matter of selling fear.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
I’m all aboard the No Fear train, and especially as it
relates to inhibiting critical thinking.
As someone who doesn’t really align with either the republican or
democrat parties, I see it coming from both parties, but even more than either
party I see it from the mainstream media (both left and right). I think you can look at it in three
ways. The first is are people actively
trying to make us afraid, the second is are we as people making the mistake of
reading two much into news reports, and the third is are politicians or other
parties capitalizing on events to further their own agendas.
I think 9/11 is the classic modern example of using fear to
get what you want. If you ignore all the
conspiracy theory aspects of 9/11, you still end up with politicians pushing
their agendas through capitalizing on the fear of the people to an end that wasn’t
worth it. Shortly after 9/11, we entered
a war with Iraq (who had nothing to do with the terror attack), we increased
military spending, we implemented homeland security, and the TSA programs. We’ve spent Trillions of dollars chasing
after “Terror”. Even today, I frequently
see people worried about “Terrorism” on social media, even though it’s
relatively far down the list of things that are statistically likely to happen
to you. I think the biggest problem here
is that there’s this atmosphere that people aren’t willing to even talk about
these issues until it’s too late. Back
around 9/11, no one was willing to talk out about this out of fear of being chastised
in the media for being soft on terrorists.
Even today, this continues with each “Mass Shooting”. Statistically, mass shootings don’t even move
the needle in terms of deaths, especially if you remove gang related “mass
shootings” which I wouldn’t categorize the same as “terror”. There is no reason to be afraid of mass
shootings. If we just ignored “terror”
since 9/11 and used those Trillions of dollars focusing on rapidly improving
self driving automobiles to prevent impaired drivers getting in accidents, we
would be massively ahead as a society.
Currently, I see the both sides using fear. I especially see it out of people on social
media. I think a lot of what people are
worried about on social media are things that people are taking out of context
and to degrees that are far beyond what are deserved by the things they are
reacting to. I think a small group of people
on the right have an unfound fear of foreigners. They also have a fear that the left wants
completely unregulated borders where we pretty much have martial law, where
there is no order or reason on who we let into our country. I think there’s only a small group of people
on the left who want completely open borders.
I think the majority of people in this country believe that we should
have some sort of orderly process where we keep track of who wants in, and keep
out those who don’t meet some criteria.
If someone’s a convicted serial rapist, I think we can all agree that
they should stay wherever they came from that we should have a process for
filtering them out. But instead of
having a nice conversation discussing what our process currently is, and what
changes we should make to improve it. We
just end up with leftists overworrying about racists, and the rightists
overworrying about open borders and forcefitting the majority into one of these
two camps and killing all dialogue.
Even when Trump or anyone on the Right clearly defines the
definition of Nationalism that they are using as “Proud of our Country, we’ll
prioritize our needs before foreign needs”, the left tries to find the code or
dog whistles in the that and pretends that everyone is lying and actually means
“I’m openly proud about how superior my people are to other people”. I think the left is currently more heavily
using fear as a motivating factor, probably just because Trump got
elected. I think if Hillary was the one
who got elected, we’d probably see the opposite happen. Regardless of who got elected, we’d probably
see a big outrage as people overreact about the democrats try to act on
anything.
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