Any Word on Rhodes or Barr?

[Guest]

@HappyViking said:

@suncoastvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@Ralphie said:

@suncoastvike said:
Zimmer should just take his foot off the offensive brake and let Kirk, Adam, Diggs and Murray match Brees and company in what will likely be a shoot out. My faith in the defense stopping them is low. I have more faith in the Saints defense not stopping ours. IF Mike let's loose the reins.

I just know I'm gonna lose it if Diggs has 8 receptions for 33 yards.  His under usage is nauseating.

I know...really!

he is drawing the opposing teams #1 CB and still is getting safety help over the top or LB help underneath on many of his routes... its not the offensive play calling that is taking away Diggs its the defensive schemes.  is it coincidence that when Diggs disappears that Theilen goes off?  sooner or later teams will roll more of that coverage towards AT and Diggs will get his big game,  but right now he is playing a role and doing a very good job at it.   it has to be damn hard to still work as hard as he does on every play knowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Yeah as for Treadwell. I'm a little tired of the extra work needed to try and make him useful. Either you are or you ain't. At what point this season do we conclude he's not coming back next year and see if someone here now is. 

the Treadwell angst is silly.  he is #3 receiver on a team that has studs at 1 and 2, and a usually sure handed pass catching TE,   and a coach that wants to stay balanced on O between run and pass as much as he can.  I dont think anything is being manufactured for him,  its opportunities that show up at times for him due to teams taking away the other options.  The guy has been solid since the GBay game and yet people are still bagging on him.  I dont understand where it comes from or what people are expecting out of anybody in that situation.... especially if people want to watch some film and realize that many of our chunk plays from the LOS are due to him making a block that a lot of receivers would not make.

i know that people are frustrated that he was a first round pick,  but hell its time to get past that and realize that we have a #3 receiver that is contributing quite well on an offense that is still finding its identity under a new OC.  and when he is called on he is making the plays,  he can only do what is asked of him.

You're right the angst against Treadwell is silly. He didn't draft himself in the 1st round. However there lies the problem. We spent another high draft pick on a receiver we won't sign to a 2nd contract. You are right it's more my problem then his. Wonder what would have happened if we drafted a Oline guy insted. Nevermind we blow them often enough too.  Maybe any position as long as he started. That's my angst. 1st rounders are not #3.

Are undrafted walkons or 5th rounders #1s?  If they wiffed on the Treadwell pick, I think they made up for it with both AT and Diggs.

HaHa yeah they are nice consolation prizes. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@Ralphie said:

@suncoastvike said:
Zimmer should just take his foot off the offensive brake and let Kirk, Adam, Diggs and Murray match Brees and company in what will likely be a shoot out. My faith in the defense stopping them is low. I have more faith in the Saints defense not stopping ours. IF Mike let's loose the reins.

I just know I'm gonna lose it if Diggs has 8 receptions for 33 yards.  His under usage is nauseating.

I know...really!

he is drawing the opposing teams #1 CB and still is getting safety help over the top or LB help underneath on many of his routes... its not the offensive play calling that is taking away Diggs its the defensive schemes.  is it coincidence that when Diggs disappears that Theilen goes off?  sooner or later teams will roll more of that coverage towards AT and Diggs will get his big game,  but right now he is playing a role and doing a very good job at it.   it has to be damn hard to still work as hard as he does on every play knowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Yeah as for Treadwell. I'm a little tired of the extra work needed to try and make him useful. Either you are or you ain't. At what point this season do we conclude he's not coming back next year and see if someone here now is. 

the Treadwell angst is silly.  he is #3 receiver on a team that has studs at 1 and 2, and a usually sure handed pass catching TE,   and a coach that wants to stay balanced on O between run and pass as much as he can.  I dont think anything is being manufactured for him,  its opportunities that show up at times for him due to teams taking away the other options.  The guy has been solid since the GBay game and yet people are still bagging on him.  I dont understand where it comes from or what people are expecting out of anybody in that situation.... especially if people want to watch some film and realize that many of our chunk plays from the LOS are due to him making a block that a lot of receivers would not make.

i know that people are frustrated that he was a first round pick,  but hell its time to get past that and realize that we have a #3 receiver that is contributing quite well on an offense that is still finding its identity under a new OC.  and when he is called on he is making the plays,  he can only do what is asked of him.

I actually think Treadwell is doing much better.  He's doing what's being asked of him, catching the ball when he's targeted and blocking when it is needed.  Not every player on the field is going to be a super star, most of us probably couldn't even name the #3 receiver on most teams.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@Ralphie said:

@suncoastvike said:
Zimmer should just take his foot off the offensive brake and let Kirk, Adam, Diggs and Murray match Brees and company in what will likely be a shoot out. My faith in the defense stopping them is low. I have more faith in the Saints defense not stopping ours. IF Mike let's loose the reins.

I just know I'm gonna lose it if Diggs has 8 receptions for 33 yards.  His under usage is nauseating.

I know...really!

he is drawing the opposing teams #1 CB and still is getting safety help over the top or LB help underneath on many of his routes... its not the offensive play calling that is taking away Diggs its the defensive schemes.  is it coincidence that when Diggs disappears that Theilen goes off?  sooner or later teams will roll more of that coverage towards AT and Diggs will get his big game,  but right now he is playing a role and doing a very good job at it.   it has to be damn hard to still work as hard as he does on every play knowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Yeah as for Treadwell. I'm a little tired of the extra work needed to try and make him useful. Either you are or you ain't. At what point this season do we conclude he's not coming back next year and see if someone here now is. 

the Treadwell angst is silly.  he is #3 receiver on a team that has studs at 1 and 2, and a usually sure handed pass catching TE,   and a coach that wants to stay balanced on O between run and pass as much as he can.  I dont think anything is being manufactured for him,  its opportunities that show up at times for him due to teams taking away the other options.  The guy has been solid since the GBay game and yet people are still bagging on him.  I dont understand where it comes from or what people are expecting out of anybody in that situation.... especially if people want to watch some film and realize that many of our chunk plays from the LOS are due to him making a block that a lot of receivers would not make.

i know that people are frustrated that he was a first round pick,  but hell its time to get past that and realize that we have a #3 receiver that is contributing quite well on an offense that is still finding its identity under a new OC.  and when he is called on he is making the plays,  he can only do what is asked of him.

You're right the angst against Treadwell is silly. He didn't draft himself in the 1st round. However there lies the problem. We spent another high draft pick on a receiver we won't sign to a 2nd contract. You are right it's more my problem then his. Wonder what would have happened if we drafted a Oline guy insted. Nevermind we blow them often enough too.  Maybe any position as long as he started. That's my angst. 1st rounders are not #3.

but remember back to that time.. if Rick handnt taken a shot at a WR in the first heads would have rolled.  I dont think there was a fan, analyst, etc out there that didnt have WR at the top of the Vikings board and only a few picked Thomas who was the only one that  came later that amounted to much.  it was a gamble that didnt pay off as expected,  but the kid is performing well IMO in the role he is asked to fill.

You are correct again. I need to take a big bite of that apple myself. I was certain we needed a game changing WR that draft. Still doesn't change the fact that's not what we got. We did get lucky in that we ended up with 2. Just not the one we spent a 1st on. I seriously doubt he gets that 2nd contract with this team. This is a pattern that has me a bit angst. Treadwell seems like a descent guy. It's just his dumb luck to be at the end of a long list of high drafted WR's that turned to bust...imo.

[Guest]

@Ralphie said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

nowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Again, Diggs had 8 receptions for 33 yards.  Yup...had the Jets fooled for sure.  And against the mighty Cardinals secondary, 3 receptions for...wait for it...33 yards.  But he was targeted 5 times, soooo there's that...
BTW, I was being facetious about Treadwell. 

Kinda wondered.  As to Diggs, he had Peterson on him the whole game.  One of the best cover CBs in the game.  Teams are trying to take away Diggs to slow down our offense.  But Cousins is a good QB and will take what is there, AT, Treadwell, Robinson...

So if defenses want to roll coverage to our #1, the rest will light them up.  Fine with me.  Diggs may be a bit frustrated, but the offense is rolling.

[Guest]

The Treadwell rationalizing here is always amazing to me. To say he hasn't been a disappointment is just flat out wrong. But he's here and a Viking so its kind of whatever, I suppose for the time being. He won't be getting a second contract here anyway. 

[Guest]

@1VikesFan said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@Ralphie said:

@suncoastvike said:
Zimmer should just take his foot off the offensive brake and let Kirk, Adam, Diggs and Murray match Brees and company in what will likely be a shoot out. My faith in the defense stopping them is low. I have more faith in the Saints defense not stopping ours. IF Mike let's loose the reins.

I just know I'm gonna lose it if Diggs has 8 receptions for 33 yards.  His under usage is nauseating.

I know...really!

he is drawing the opposing teams #1 CB and still is getting safety help over the top or LB help underneath on many of his routes... its not the offensive play calling that is taking away Diggs its the defensive schemes.  is it coincidence that when Diggs disappears that Theilen goes off?  sooner or later teams will roll more of that coverage towards AT and Diggs will get his big game,  but right now he is playing a role and doing a very good job at it.   it has to be damn hard to still work as hard as he does on every play knowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Yeah as for Treadwell. I'm a little tired of the extra work needed to try and make him useful. Either you are or you ain't. At what point this season do we conclude he's not coming back next year and see if someone here now is. 

the Treadwell angst is silly.  he is #3 receiver on a team that has studs at 1 and 2, and a usually sure handed pass catching TE,   and a coach that wants to stay balanced on O between run and pass as much as he can.  I dont think anything is being manufactured for him,  its opportunities that show up at times for him due to teams taking away the other options.  The guy has been solid since the GBay game and yet people are still bagging on him.  I dont understand where it comes from or what people are expecting out of anybody in that situation.... especially if people want to watch some film and realize that many of our chunk plays from the LOS are due to him making a block that a lot of receivers would not make.

i know that people are frustrated that he was a first round pick,  but hell its time to get past that and realize that we have a #3 receiver that is contributing quite well on an offense that is still finding its identity under a new OC.  and when he is called on he is making the plays,  he can only do what is asked of him.

I actually think Treadwell is doing much better.  He's doing what's being asked of him, catching the ball when he's targeted and blocking when it is needed.  Not every player on the field is going to be a super star, most of us probably couldn't even name the #3 receiver on most teams.

preaching to the choir here brother,  I have no issues with Treadwell lately,  he is doing everything asked of him and with the way Theilens years has been going there arent a lot of other balls available.  Treadwell is doing the dirty work and doing a damn good job of it IMO.  Theilen doesnt have his streak of 100 yard games if there wasnt somebody like Treadwell popping blocks down field.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:
The Treadwell rationalizing here is always amazing to me. To say he hasn't been a disappointment is just flat out wrong. But he's here and a Viking so its kind of whatever, I suppose for the time being. He won't be getting a second contract here anyway. 

i am not rationalizing anything,  he is what he is,  but I am not going to sit and piss and moan about it all the time like some want to do... its over and done with,  the pick is long gone and the kid is busting his ass which is all we can really ask of any kid taken at any spot.  work hard and hope that its enough.  anything beyond that isnt on the player.  if anybody wants to say he was over drafted no arguement can be made.

[Guest]

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:

nowing that the defense is scheming specifically to take you out of the offense.

I get that he's drawing the #1 CB, but he's been featured on too many WR screens and laterals, IMO.  With his hands and route running, Diggs should be seeing deeper looks.  Let Roc, Boone or Treadwell play scat-back.

Treadwell?  Scat back?  Doesn't seem like a fit to me.  Roc or Boone maybe, but that won't scare the D.

Again, Diggs had 8 receptions for 33 yards.  Yup...had the Jets fooled for sure.  And against the mighty Cardinals secondary, 3 receptions for...wait for it...33 yards.  But he was targeted 5 times, soooo there's that...
BTW, I was being facetious about Treadwell. 

Kinda wondered.  As to Diggs, he had Peterson on him the whole game.  One of the best cover CBs in the game.  Teams are trying to take away Diggs to slow down our offense.  But Cousins is a good QB and will take what is there, AT, Treadwell, Robinson...

So if defenses want to roll coverage to our #1, the rest will light them up.  Fine with me.  Diggs may be a bit frustrated, but the offense is rolling.

I apologize for not making myself clear about Diggs drawing the top CB's.  I agree.  But it's not like he's running post routs and having these CB's draped on his back or Cousins looking off for another receiver.  He's been getting few down-the-field looks and these silly, overplayed WR screens in bunch formations that are sniffed out resulting in a loss or minimal yards. One last week was almost a lateral that he belatedly fell on to avoid a turnover.
11 receptions in 2 weeks for 66 yards is, IMHO, a serious under use of a thoroughbred route runner.  I have no fundamental problem with using him on such screens occasionally to keep secondary's honest.  And I don't know if he is or isn't frustrated playing the roll of decoy.  But not having him balance out the deep threat Thielen can pose seems like a waste of his talent.   

[Guest]

@Ralphie said:

@greediron said:

Kinda wondered.  As to Diggs, he had Peterson on him the whole game.  One of the best cover CBs in the game.  Teams are trying to take away Diggs to slow down our offense.  But Cousins is a good QB and will take what is there, AT, Treadwell, Robinson...

So if defenses want to roll coverage to our #1, the rest will light them up.  Fine with me.  Diggs may be a bit frustrated, but the offense is rolling.

I apologize for not making myself clear about Diggs drawing the top CB's.  I agree.  But it's not like he's running post routs and having these CB's draped on his back or Cousins looking off for another receiver.  He's been getting few down-the-field looks and these silly, overplayed WR screens in bunch formations that are sniffed out resulting in a loss or minimal yards. One last week was almost a lateral that he belatedly fell on to avoid a turnover.
11 receptions in 2 weeks for 66 yards is, IMHO, a serious under use of a thoroughbred route runner.  I have no fundamental problem with using him on such screens occasionally to keep secondary's honest.  And I don't know if he is or isn't frustrated playing the roll of decoy.  But not having him balance out the deep threat Thielen can pose seems like a waste of his talent.   

So how many WR screens did he get?  And how many down the field looks?

I remember at least 1 drop on a 10-15 yard pass.  And at least two good defensive plays by the DB (not their best cover guy) down the field.  So that is specifically 3 long throws his way. 

And as others have mentioned, it wouldn't be surprising to see our offense putting these on film against two weak opponents to setup something for the Saints game.

[Guest]

@greediron said:

@Ralphie said:


   

So how many WR screens did he get?  And how many down the field looks?

I remember at least 1 drop on a 10-15 yard pass.  And at least two good defensive plays by the DB (not their best cover guy) down the field.  So that is specifically 3 long throws his way. 

And as others have mentioned, it wouldn't be surprising to see our offense putting these on film against two weak opponents to setup something for the Saints game.

Greed, you might be right on this is just an aberration of using Diggs recently.  But he was undoubtedly getting more targets earlier than these last two games.  I posted above his last game stats.  It doesn't mention screens specifically but would be included...I assume...in the Short L or R stats.
Anyway, I'm done venting now.  That is until next weekend's game. ;P