Yes he was good at special teams. And it may appear that the Vikings gave up on him too soon, but Oakland paid him pretty well, so I think CP and the Davis family thought much more highly of him than he was worth. It may have been more that CP was done with the Vikings.
Another contrast of the two, CP never stayed after practice according to most accounts. He didn't put in any extra work, was usually one of the first to leave. Treadwell puts in lots of time after practice, maybe too much. He is inside his own head because he wants so badly to be better. The first drop was trying to make a first down and turning upfield before securing the ball. The rest were mental issues from that play IMO.
Yes Treadwell had some route issues in game 1. But you can tell Kirk has confidence in him to be where he is supposed to be, going to him on the goalline, on a critical 3rd down and then again late in the game. We have heard that Treadwell just can't get open, but he certainly has been open plenty. His issues are mental blocks about catching. Maybe he should steal Diggs' gloves.
"Maybe he should steal Diggs' gloves."
I definitely won't argue with that! They are magical!
Until Tread can get his catching and route issues resolved, he just seems like a liability to me. CP's athleticism and hands are better than Treadwell's...both struggle with routes, but again CP definitely improved on that in '16.
Work ethic: I always wonder about that. You hear those "work ethic rumors" about guys like "So and so was the last one on the field and the first one off." Heard that a lot about Kalil, for instance. Also heard it about Kendall Wright this year. I don't want to take that out of context. Obviously a lot of other folks leave the field too in order for that extra special guy to be the last one off, right? 
Edit: I will concede where Kalil is concerned I tend to believe that "last one on, first one off" thingy. I have to believe it. I am the president and CEO of the Matt Kalil despiser's club.
Quote: @prairieghost said:
"Maybe he should steal Diggs' gloves."
I definitely won't argue with that! They are magical!
Until Tread can get his catching and route issues resolved, he just seems like a liability to me. CP's athleticism and hands are better than Treadwell's...both struggle with routes, but again CP definitely improved on that in '16.
Work ethic: I always wonder about that. You hear those "work ethic rumors" about guys like "So and so was the last one on the field and the first one off." Heard that a lot about Kalil, for instance. Also heard it about Kendall Wright this year. I don't want to take that out of context. Obviously a lot of other folks leave the field too in order for that extra special guy to be the last one off, right?
Edit: I will concede where Kalil is concerned I tend to believe that "last one on, first one off" thingy. I have to believe it. I am the president and CEO of the Matt Kalil despiser's club.
I had to laugh at that. Sometimes it seems that there must be about 30 different buildings/fields because there are usually at least 30 guys that are the first one in the building/last one off the field.
But as to CP, I think Tom reported it. Pete talked about it. He wasn't dedicated to being a WR. His training in the offseason was about being a workout warrior as well.
I agree that right now Treadwell is a liability. IMO he shouldn't have been out there after the INT. But I disagree that CP was any better. At least the defenses respect Treadwell.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ prairieghost said:
"Maybe he should steal Diggs' gloves."
I definitely won't argue with that! They are magical!
Until Tread can get his catching and route issues resolved, he just seems like a liability to me. CP's athleticism and hands are better than Treadwell's...both struggle with routes, but again CP definitely improved on that in '16.
Work ethic: I always wonder about that. You hear those "work ethic rumors" about guys like "So and so was the last one on the field and the first one off." Heard that a lot about Kalil, for instance. Also heard it about Kendall Wright this year. I don't want to take that out of context. Obviously a lot of other folks leave the field too in order for that extra special guy to be the last one off, right?
Edit: I will concede where Kalil is concerned I tend to believe that "last one on, first one off" thingy. I have to believe it. I am the president and CEO of the Matt Kalil despiser's club.
I had to laugh at that. Sometimes it seems that there must be about 30 different buildings/fields because there are usually at least 30 guys that are the first one in the building/last one off the field.
But as to CP, I think Tom reported it. Pete talked about it. He wasn't dedicated to being a WR. His training in the offseason was about being a workout warrior as well.
I agree that right now Treadwell is a liability. IMO he shouldn't have been out there after the INT. But I disagree that CP was any better. At least the defenses respect Treadwell.
I do recall the workout warrior thing with CP. He went to some guru in California, right? And Treadwell did the stairs according to Zim. These guys need to focus on their job. They are obviously in fantastic shape; that isn't the problem.
I do also recall that Tread was working with CC. If anyone could show him how to obtain golden hands it would be CC.
Treadwell almost lost a couple fingers on one od the drops. He put his hands together for a catch and the ball hit the tops of his fingers jamming them in. He shook and held his hand getting up...
I think weve all had a football jam our fingers once before... funny watching an NFL player botch one like that.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Vikings should always do the opposite of what I want when it comes to WR's.
I was absolutely smitten when we drafted Patterson and I also wanted to see Dorial Green Beckham in purple...
Its how we're wired as fans: we like the biggest, fastest, strongest, best arms, etc. for players. DGB was a huge waste and coincidentally, check this out:
http://www.tmz.com/2018/09/17/dorial-gre...uilty-dwi/
But this doesn't mean that big, fast, strong, long-armed physical freaks are ALL bad WRs: Calvin Johnson was ok, AJ Green and Julio Jones are alright...
Those guys were all top 10 picks, though, because if a player has those freakish physical attributes AND has shown he can run good routes and catch footballs and doesn't have a drug addiction or some other off-field problem, the entire NFL wants him.
IMO the problems start when someone tries to get a steal. DGB and Josh Gordon were 2nd round picks, with supposedly all-world talent if only they could stay straight. Patterson was 29th overall. Wasn't even Greg Childs going to be a great steal, a physical freak (if only he had both legs)? We Vikings fans have this longing for the "steal" especially badly because we're so proud of our team getting Randy Moss so late and think we can do it again.
Isn't Treadwell kind of an "anti-freak" draft pick? Spielman was like a guy who breaks up with a hot vivacious girlfriend and swears from now on he'll never date a girl like her again, only date wholesome girl-next-door types. He picked Harvin and Patterson, then said, "No more fast super athletic receivers for me - I'll pick a slow guy who can't jump very high!"
Quote: @prairieghost said:
I'd rather have CP than Treadwell 7 days a week. No matter what, whenever CP steps on the field you have to respect his speed. And FWIW, his last year with us he made some pretty good strides. With a QB like Kirk throwing to him I think Flash would have a place here, even if it was for gadget plays.
EDIT: Also, CP would certainly upgrade our special teams. He is a hell of a gunner and return guy as we know. I see more uses for him on this team than I do Treadwell.
I agree
They both suck equally . I rest my case 
Quote: @prairieghost said:
@ greediron said:
@ prairieghost said:
I'd rather have CP than Treadwell 7 days a week. No matter what, whenever CP steps on the field you have to respect his speed. And FWIW, his last year with us he made some pretty good strides. With a QB like Kirk throwing to him I think Flash would have a place here, even if it was for gadget plays.
EDIT: Also, CP would certainly upgrade our special teams. He is a hell of a gunner and return guy as we know. I see more uses for him on this team than I do Treadwell.
Completely disagree here. Gadget players aren't respected down the field because QBs can't trust them to run the right route. All they are good for are jet sweeps and that is easy to defend if you know it is coming.
Case in point. When did you ever see a safety shading CP's direction. He was left 1-on-1 and couldn't run the right route even though it was open. Contrast that with Digg's touchdown. Go watch that again and watch the safety. Who did he track leaving Diggs 1-on-1 with a backup CB? That was Treadwell. Now part of that may have been Cousin's eyes moving the safety, but why would the safety bite on a slow WR crossing the field. Because he was a threat.
I won't defend Treadwell for his drops because he is a mental case there. But I will give credit where it is due. He was enough of a threat downfield to pull the safety leaving Diggs open.
And why did we sign a new speed WR? IMO it wasn't to replace Treadwell, it was to replace Coley who ran an awful route on the INT that was negated by Burping Matthews. It was the same throw as the Diggs TD, but Diggs played with the DB while Coley let the DB run the route for him.
As much as CP was maligned for not fulfilling his #1 WR destiny he never became a head case about it. CP had a decent year his last season with the Vikings in 2016 despite barely seeing the field in 2015. He went 52-453-2 with Sam throwing to him. The gadget plays that are supposedly all he is capable of were 7 for 43 yards that year. He added a kick return TD as well and his ability as a gunner was unveiled. In total, he had 5 kick return TDs with us.
CPs career receiving totals as a Viking: 132-1316-7, and as I mentioned, that's with barely seeing the field in 2015.
I won't argue that CP has struggled with route running. However, he caught 52 passes in 2016. No way he catches 52 balls without running a lot of correct routes. I think he was finally turning a corner with us.
LT, meanwhile, was chewed out by Rudolph for all to see against the 9ers only last week for running the wrong route. Yeah, he caught a TD pass on Sunday and I was glad for him. But the rest of the game wasn't pretty. His route running is very suspect as well, and I really cannot see where he'd be considered more of a threat to opposing defenses than CP is. I think the Vikings gave up on CP just when he was starting to come into his own.
As for how things ended in Oakland for CP I could cite how things ended for Randy Moss in Oakland too (and yes, I know CP isn't Randy, it's just to illustrate a pattern). Oakland is a clueless franchise, the same clueless franchise who traded away one of the very best defensive players in the NFL and hired Chucky to coach to the tune of 100 million. They grabbed CP for his kick return ability and then Jack Del Rio declared they'd fit him in somewhere to an already capable receiving corps headed by Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree.
With New England, we're talking about a career that is 2 games old. If we can make all kinds of excuses for why LT hasn't succeeded here then we can use the same excuses for CP. Sam gave CP a chance when they were here together and now Kirk is trying to give LT a chance.
The season just started so we'll see how Treadwell does. I will gladly eat a whole bucket of crow if he can turn it around. Something tells me he'll be afforded every opportunity.
Who in the world is comparing him to Treadwell? We all know Treadwell sucks. That’s a pretty low bar.
Quote: @minny65 said:
They both suck equally . I rest my case
Quote: @minny65 said:
They both suck equally . I rest my case
But Diggs was a great find in the 5th and Theilan a great find and development as an UDFA. Not sure but having 2 top 20 Wr's is pretty good no matter if they were picked 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th 5th....who cares we have two top Wr's. Does anyone think any other team has drafted two Top 20 Wr's in the last 5 years in the first round? Let me know
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