I can feel guilty at home, doesn't cost me anything.
Flip Wilson did this great skit...this minister is preaching to his congregation..."plate shot around the room, came back nothing in it"
"Now brothers and sisters, we can't have this, I'm gonna sent the plate around again, and give you all a chance to fix this up"
plate shot around the room...nothing again.
Reverend said, "folks, a church is like a child...you've gotta teach them to crawl"
The inspired congregation yells in unison: "let it crawl Rev....let it crawl"
then he said: " then it's gotta stand up and WALK"
congregation yells: "Make it walk Rev! Make it walk!"
"Then that child & church needs to RUN"
"Make it run Rev....Make it run"
"For this church to run.....it's gonna take MONEY!"
congregation: "Let it crawl Rev!"
I think social media and technology has played a role. You can watch service on tv and online. I think the megachurches have had an impact too. Also way of life and sense of community has changed for a lot of people. I get the rationale for booting the members but I disagree with making it related to giving, that's not very Christ-like. You can give in multiple ways.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
$$$$$$
When I was young in our Catholic Church, they posted in a bulletin monthly how much each family gave to the church. Unreal.
Yes, in our church, they published it annually. Like a "look who has given the most" and "you should be embarrassed" public listing. That particular parish priest managed to pay off an entire new grade school early, by pushy tactics like this.
Another one of his tactics? They used to have what they called a "parish bazaar" event, (think like a farmer's market with crafts, food and so forth) that raised thousands of dollars each year. But the bazaar was a lot of work, and he cancelled the bazaar altogether and instead instituted a "Bazaar collection", that dispensed with the work, and yielded the cash.
Kind a like getting screwed and not kissed.
He was the only clergy my mild-mannered Dad ever got pissed off at and had a verbal confrontation with.
Quote: @Montana Tom said:
@ StickyBun said:
$$$$$$
When I was young in our Catholic Church, they posted in a bulletin monthly how much each family gave to the church. Unreal.
Yes, in our church, they published it annually. Like a "look who has given the most" and "you should be embarrassed" public listing. That particular parish priest managed to pay off an entire new grade school early, by pushy tactics like this.
Another one of his tactics? They used to have what they called a "parish bazaar" event, (think like a farmer's market with crafts, food and so forth) that raised thousands of dollars each year. But the bazaar was a lot of work, and he cancelled the bazaar altogether and instead instituted a "Bazaar collection", that dispensed with the work, and yielded the cash.
Kind a like getting screwed and not kissed.
He was the only clergy my mild-mannered Dad ever got pissed off at and had a verbal confrontation with.
There was a priest in a little town south of me that learned the hard way about greed. There was a wealthy local farmer that tithed his 10% religiously, good years and bad the church got theirs first. The intersting thing about this farmer was that he took his 10% off the gross sales, not the adjusted net after expenses and deductions and stuff like everybody else would, he was likely funding a major portion of the church himself. Well father dipshit was wanting (not needing) a lot of money for some pet project and the parishioners were not really stepping up with the money like he wants to the priest went to this wealthy farmer and tried the guilt trip on him... pointed out how well he lived and how nice his farm and equipment were and how good God had been to him.....everybody has their breaking point and apparently this was the farmers. He politely asked the priest to leave and never wrote another check to that Catholic church again. It was later reported that that local parish was in his will for what would have amounted to several million dollars upon his and his wifes passing... but that was changed as well.
as far as a church (or any non profit) disclosing who donates what... if I ever saw that I it would be the end of my contributions to that association and likely the end of my affiliation. that is no way to run an organization and especially a faith based one that should promote equality among its members... nothing creates division quicker than money.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Montana Tom said:
@ StickyBun said:
$$$$$$
When I was young in our Catholic Church, they posted in a bulletin monthly how much each family gave to the church. Unreal.
Yes, in our church, they published it annually. Like a "look who has given the most" and "you should be embarrassed" public listing. That particular parish priest managed to pay off an entire new grade school early, by pushy tactics like this.
Another one of his tactics? They used to have what they called a "parish bazaar" event, (think like a farmer's market with crafts, food and so forth) that raised thousands of dollars each year. But the bazaar was a lot of work, and he cancelled the bazaar altogether and instead instituted a "Bazaar collection", that dispensed with the work, and yielded the cash.
Kind a like getting screwed and not kissed.
He was the only clergy my mild-mannered Dad ever got pissed off at and had a verbal confrontation with.
There was a priest in a little town south of me that learned the hard way about greed. There was a wealthy local farmer that tithed his 10% religiously, good years and bad the church got theirs first. The intersting thing about this farmer was that he took his 10% off the gross sales, not the adjusted net after expenses and deductions and stuff like everybody else would, he was likely funding a major portion of the church himself. Well father dipshit was wanting (not needing) a lot of money for some pet project and the parishioners were not really stepping up with the money like he wants to the priest went to this wealthy farmer and tried the guilt trip on him... pointed out how well he lived and how nice his farm and equipment were and how good God had been to him.....everybody has their breaking point and apparently this was the farmers. He politely asked the priest to leave and never wrote another check to that Catholic church again. It was later reported that that local parish was in his will for what would have amounted to several million dollars upon his and his wifes passing... but that was changed as well.
as far as a church (or any non profit) disclosing who donates what... if I ever saw that I it would be the end of my contributions to that association and likely the end of my affiliation. that is no way to run an organization and especially a faith based one that should promote equality among its members... nothing creates division quicker than money.
Don't know whether to like or dislike your post. Your last line is spot on. Money is necessary, but is such a subversive evil as well. We all have our temptations and weaknesses. I haven't come across many priests that lost their way on finances, but have seen the parish staff overcome with being entrenched and helping themselves to the church checkbook. I have been part of large parish building projects that when completed suddenly become very difficult to access because of power trips.
I think it all sticks in our minds when it happens in such a hypocritical fashion at a place that we hope would be immune to it. But the church on earth fills the human element of the Body of Christ, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised when the human portion acts like fallen humanity.
if youre not attending are you really a member? i think this is a big tado about nothing. someone tocked the wrong person off...course i also refuse to sign the attendance sheets because the big man upstairs is the only ine i care about keeping track and ive been an elder. pastor wasnt pleased when i told him i wouldnt sign the sheets.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
if youre not attending are you really a member? i think this is a big tado about nothing. someone tocked the wrong person off...course i also refuse to sign the attendance sheets because the big man upstairs is the only ine i care about keeping track and ive been an elder. pastor wasnt pleased when i told him i wouldnt sign the sheets.
As a pastor, I wouldn't be either.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
I think social media and technology has played a role. You can watch service on tv and online. I think the megachurches have had an impact too. Also way of life and sense of community has changed for a lot of people. I get the rationale for booting the members but I disagree with making it related to giving, that's not very Christ-like. You can give in multiple ways.
I still prefer a smaller church. However after attending a mega-church or Christ-mart as I used to call them. For crushing all the smaller ones. I've kinda changed my outlook on these huge auditorium style churches . They have the ability to provide so much more to the community then just service on Sunday. There might be some of the social media effect going on here. In a time when people judge themselves on how many "friends" and "followers" they have. They've walked away from friends and what they should follow for the anonymity of the huge auditorium. That I think is a top reason why many smaller churches in cities fail. Also why I still prefer a small church feeling. In rural areas it could be declining population. I don't know haven't spent enough time in the country these days. I've witnessed a big auditorium at 75% capacity for 3 services a day on somedays. Easter and Christmas full or standing room only and services or something going on all day and into the night. Seems there's still quite a few believer's. How they are showing it has evolved.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ Vikergirl said:
I think social media and technology has played a role. You can watch service on tv and online. I think the megachurches have had an impact too. Also way of life and sense of community has changed for a lot of people. I get the rationale for booting the members but I disagree with making it related to giving, that's not very Christ-like. You can give in multiple ways.
I still prefer a smaller church. However after attending a mega-church or Christ-mart as I used to call them. For crushing all the smaller ones. I've kinda changed my outlook on these huge auditorium style churches . They have the ability to provide so much more to the community then just service on Sunday. There might be some of the social media effect going on here. In a time when people judge themselves on how many "friends" and "followers" they have. They've walked away from friends and what they should follow for the anonymity of the huge auditorium. That I think is a top reason why many smaller churches in cities fail. Also why I still prefer a small church feeling. In rural areas it could be declining population. I don't know haven't spent enough time in the country these days. I've witnessed a big auditorium at 75% capacity for 3 services a day on somedays. Easter and Christmas full or standing room only and services or something going on all day and into the night. Seems there's still quite a few believer's. How they are showing it has evolved.
It's amazing how many have popped up just off of various highways with their electronic billboards. I know some are legit but some of them are kind of shady too. Christ-mart is an accurate name for them. I think some people like the anonymous nature of the big church. It's easy to get swallowed up in it because of the numbers. There is no way that all the members know each other. And some people like the showiness of the big church. That whole bigger is better mentality is on full display. Some bigger churches provide services for their communities I get that and that makes a difference. Regardless of the size, if the church is working in the community to make a difference that's a good thing.
And there are definitely clubs in church. There's the golden givers club, the church ladies club, elderly club and so on. Steve Harvey does a bit on the 40 year building fund. There is also the scandal factor that has jaded some people. No one wants to be conned or played for a sucker. There is also the idea of some higher ups in the church not practicing what they preach. Also a scandal in the church can do major damage. There is a sense of betrayal because trust is broken. That has a powerful impact. Hypocrisy and lies kill any sense of community, no matter what size the church is.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ Vikergirl said:
I think social media and technology has played a role. You can watch service on tv and online. I think the megachurches have had an impact too. Also way of life and sense of community has changed for a lot of people. I get the rationale for booting the members but I disagree with making it related to giving, that's not very Christ-like. You can give in multiple ways.
I still prefer a smaller church. However after attending a mega-church or Christ-mart as I used to call them. For crushing all the smaller ones. I've kinda changed my outlook on these huge auditorium style churches . They have the ability to provide so much more to the community then just service on Sunday. There might be some of the social media effect going on here. In a time when people judge themselves on how many "friends" and "followers" they have. They've walked away from friends and what they should follow for the anonymity of the huge auditorium. That I think is a top reason why many smaller churches in cities fail. Also why I still prefer a small church feeling. In rural areas it could be declining population. I don't know haven't spent enough time in the country these days. I've witnessed a big auditorium at 75% capacity for 3 services a day on somedays. Easter and Christmas full or standing room only and services or something going on all day and into the night. Seems there's still quite a few believer's. How they are showing it has evolved.
It's amazing how many have popped up just off of various highways with their electronic billboards. I know some are legit but some of them are kind of shady too. Christ-mart is an accurate name for them. I think some people like the anonymous nature of the big church. It's easy to get swallowed up in it because of the numbers. There is no way that all the members know each other. And some people like the showiness of the big church. That whole bigger is better mentality is on full display. Some bigger churches provide services for their communities I get that and that makes a difference. Regardless of the size, if the church is working in the community to make a difference that's a good thing.
And there are definitely clubs in church. There's the golden givers club, the church ladies club, elderly club and so on. Steve Harvey does a bit on the 40 year building fund. There is also the scandal factor that has jaded some people. No one wants to be conned or played for a sucker. There is also the idea of some higher ups in the church not practicing what they preach. Also a scandal in the church can do major damage. There is a sense of betrayal because trust is broken. That has a powerful impact. Hypocrisy and lies kill any sense of community, no matter what size the church is.
There's problems in churches of all sizes. I heard a pastor tell a story once. A guy was stranded alone on a island for years. When finally found his rescuers were amazed at how much building he'd done. The man was very pleased to show off all his work...this hut is my home. This one is where I work. That one is my church. What's that one over there someone asked. He shot back in anger.. that's the church I used to belong to.
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