OT: Does Anybody Else Find Irony in This?

[Guest]

@suncoastvike said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

Calling everyone stupid has value now if you want to be the president apparently. Normally I say no it's only boastful and arrogant. We are not in normal times maybe. So fire away everyone. 

I would argue that Trump was voted in primarily because Trump was the least bad option and that the left alienated so much of their voting base by insulting them and that they've only lost ground since then. 

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@AGRforever said:

@StickyBun said:

@medaille said:

When I read this thread or any vaccine threads, I cringe pretty heavily.  When it comes to certain topics like vaccines and global warming, good debate goes out the window and is replaced by anti-intellectual bullying and elitism, where people sit on their high horse and look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them.  This is very similar to the tactics that SJWs use to eliminate any competing views.  I'm skeptical that the vast majority of people on either side of the vaccine issue understand the topic sufficiently well that they should feel comfortable in looking down on other people.
I'm not trying to get anyone to change their minds of the vaccine issue, but just to get people to be aware of when they are just promoting their dogma and stifling competing dogmas rather than helping anyone involved in the conversation.

There are no 'two sides' to this issue. If you think there are, you need to educate yourself. 

well said!!  there isnt much to add

Agreed, there is nothing to add. And I'm SO sick of the gullible being susceptible to the garbage theories on the internet about medical and scientific facts that they want to refute to fit their ignorant logic and agendas, like vaccinations. I don't know what the hell is going on with parents today along these lines, but I've learned to never overestimate the intelligence of the masses.

I blame the "Fair and Balance...We report it and you decide" mentality. Ok that's great. Should people the claim the earth is flat be given the same weight as spherical earth? Well, they have some scientific-y explanations of why it could be plausible...... Ugh.... Borderline dangerous to report stupid shit that is pretty much blatantly false under the guise that we should give it air time and let others decide if THEY think it's true. Because we are always going to have some dipshit segment of society that is going to see it and just HAVE to be the contrarian. 

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

It's not agreement with "me" (or whoever) that is the issue here; it's agreement with the preponderance of the evidence. I'm not an astrophysicist, nor have I ever been to space and seen the earth with my own two eyes, but I feel pretty confident that the earth is round based on what scientists have said. Like the argument between round earthers and flat earthers, there is not a huge number of people on both sides of the climate and vaccination issues either. There is a vast majority on one side (typically represented by experts in the field who have studied the issue) and a small minority on the other (typically represented by conspiratorial types and those who stand to gain financially by casting doubt). 

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@suncoastvike said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

Calling everyone stupid has value now if you want to be the president apparently. Normally I say no it's only boastful and arrogant. We are not in normal times maybe. So fire away everyone. 

I would argue that Trump was voted in primarily because Trump was the least bad option and that the left alienated so much of their voting base by insulting them and that they've only lost ground since then. 

Unfortunately politics are year round now. I wish he would stop running for the job he's already got. He's not alone in this. Just more obnoxious then most are used to from a leader. Oh well. Like I said maybe not a normal time.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

When it comes to vaccines, of course. Are you kidding?? We aren't talking the preference of chocolate ice cream to vanilla here. Every single post there is that discusses not vaccinating your kids is idiotic. You can paint with a brush that wide on this topic. As I said, there is no 'other' side to this. There is zero value being polite on this subject.

All hail!  The King Sticky has spoken. 

Zero value in arguing with an idiotic stance such as this arrogance.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

It's not agreement with "me" (or whoever) that is the issue here; it's agreement with the preponderance of the evidence. I'm not an astrophysicist, nor have I ever been to space and seen the earth with my own two eyes, but I feel pretty confident that the earth is round based on what scientists have said. Like the argument between round earthers and flat earthers, there is not a huge number of people on both sides of the climate and vaccination issues either. There is a vast majority on one side (typically represented by experts in the field who have studied the issue) and a small minority on the other (typically represented by conspiratorial types and those who stand to gain financially by casting doubt). 

My main point that I've been trying to drive home here isn't about who's right and who's wrong.  It's about people who don't actually know anything, who are so convinced that what they've been told is right that they feel like they can insult other people and close their minds to all new information, and because the only way they can communicate is through insults it stifles communication, creates unnecessary divisions in society and prevents progress.  The people who make the most progress for society are those who don't conform.  Science is littered with great people that were discredited or locked up or their work ruined because they didn't conform with the "vast majority" only to be found to be correct once the "vast majority" died and the more open minded young took a closer look.  The truth doesn't need any help.  The truth becomes self-apparent when facts are presented in a cohesive manner.  Name calling and insults are tactics for the people who don't have truth on their side, because they want to "win" but don't know truth.  We're all on the same side.  We want to do what's best for ourselves and others.

[Guest]

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

It's not agreement with "me" (or whoever) that is the issue here; it's agreement with the preponderance of the evidence. I'm not an astrophysicist, nor have I ever been to space and seen the earth with my own two eyes, but I feel pretty confident that the earth is round based on what scientists have said. Like the argument between round earthers and flat earthers, there is not a huge number of people on both sides of the climate and vaccination issues either. There is a vast majority on one side (typically represented by experts in the field who have studied the issue) and a small minority on the other (typically represented by conspiratorial types and those who stand to gain financially by casting doubt). 

My main point that I've been trying to drive home here isn't about who's right and who's wrong.  It's about people who don't actually know anything, who are so convinced that what they've been told is right that they feel like they can insult other people and close their minds to all new information, and because the only way they can communicate is through insults it stifles communication, creates unnecessary divisions in society and prevents progress.  The people who make the most progress for society are those who don't conform.  Science is littered with great people that were discredited or locked up or their work ruined because they didn't conform with the "vast majority" only to be found to be correct once the "vast majority" died and the more open minded young took a closer look.  The truth doesn't need any help.  The truth becomes self-apparent when facts are presented in a cohesive manner.  Name calling and insults are tactics for the people who don't have truth on their side, because they want to "win" but don't know truth.  We're all on the same side.  We want to do what's best for ourselves and others.

But aren't YOU the one who is closing his mind? MY point is that I don't know the answer. I'm just a guy. I'm not a climate scientist or a doctor or an astrophysicist or a car mechanic. Just like you, I suspect, I'm someone who relies on experts in their field to help me make decisions in areas I know nothing about. Trusting experts in their field is how the world works. It's why we have cabinet members and secretaries of state and defense, etc. We trust these people to advise us on matters we're not qualified to make judgments on.

Like I said before, if I take my car to 100 mechanics and 97 of them tell me my brakes are shot, it's damned stupid of me to side with the 3 who disagree and put everyone's life at risk by continuing to drive that car. But that's basically what you're doing. You're basically saying "all you folks who study this stuff for a living don't know shit." And yet you call those who defer to the experts arrogant and closed minded. I think you've got it backwards there.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

It's not agreement with "me" (or whoever) that is the issue here; it's agreement with the preponderance of the evidence. I'm not an astrophysicist, nor have I ever been to space and seen the earth with my own two eyes, but I feel pretty confident that the earth is round based on what scientists have said. Like the argument between round earthers and flat earthers, there is not a huge number of people on both sides of the climate and vaccination issues either. There is a vast majority on one side (typically represented by experts in the field who have studied the issue) and a small minority on the other (typically represented by conspiratorial types and those who stand to gain financially by casting doubt). 

My main point that I've been trying to drive home here isn't about who's right and who's wrong.  It's about people who don't actually know anything, who are so convinced that what they've been told is right that they feel like they can insult other people and close their minds to all new information, and because the only way they can communicate is through insults it stifles communication, creates unnecessary divisions in society and prevents progress.  The people who make the most progress for society are those who don't conform.  Science is littered with great people that were discredited or locked up or their work ruined because they didn't conform with the "vast majority" only to be found to be correct once the "vast majority" died and the more open minded young took a closer look.  The truth doesn't need any help.  The truth becomes self-apparent when facts are presented in a cohesive manner.  Name calling and insults are tactics for the people who don't have truth on their side, because they want to "win" but don't know truth.  We're all on the same side.  We want to do what's best for ourselves and others.

This is silly nonsensical garbage as it relates to vaccines. Vaccinations has proven, empirical evidence. Its beyond reproach. You might be able to apply this logic to other things and I'd agree. Just because you don't like my direct delivery on this doesn't make it anything less than 100% correct. The truth is self evident with vaccines, which you seem to not be directly discussing anymore. You've latched on to some other nebulous tangent. I am speaking directly to the original post where Kat says she's not going to vaccinate her child and I've never wavered from that in this entire thread. You seem to be grasping at something outside the scope of vaccinations now, some other thing where your point makes more sense. Because it makes none in the vein of vaccines.

If you want something that offers little value to society, its contrarians that are only contrary for the sake of it. Useless.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@StickyBun said:
We aren't talking about allergies....or the ethics of Pharma....we're talking about freaking vaccines. A tried and true method of basically saving humanity from pandemic diseases and ensuring future generations of such. But now we have the internet so some parents 'know better'. Give me a break. Its a rabbit hole of idiocy to try and debate vaccines online. Its not a debate, its a proven and highly effective medicinal methodology. 

Its so ridiculous. 

Every single post you've made in this thread is declaring how stupid people are if they don't agree with you.  Do you think that telling people how stupid they are has any value to society?

It's not agreement with "me" (or whoever) that is the issue here; it's agreement with the preponderance of the evidence. I'm not an astrophysicist, nor have I ever been to space and seen the earth with my own two eyes, but I feel pretty confident that the earth is round based on what scientists have said. Like the argument between round earthers and flat earthers, there is not a huge number of people on both sides of the climate and vaccination issues either. There is a vast majority on one side (typically represented by experts in the field who have studied the issue) and a small minority on the other (typically represented by conspiratorial types and those who stand to gain financially by casting doubt). 

My main point that I've been trying to drive home here isn't about who's right and who's wrong.  It's about people who don't actually know anything, who are so convinced that what they've been told is right that they feel like they can insult other people and close their minds to all new information, and because the only way they can communicate is through insults it stifles communication, creates unnecessary divisions in society and prevents progress.  The people who make the most progress for society are those who don't conform.  Science is littered with great people that were discredited or locked up or their work ruined because they didn't conform with the "vast majority" only to be found to be correct once the "vast majority" died and the more open minded young took a closer look.  The truth doesn't need any help.  The truth becomes self-apparent when facts are presented in a cohesive manner.  Name calling and insults are tactics for the people who don't have truth on their side, because they want to "win" but don't know truth.  We're all on the same side.  We want to do what's best for ourselves and others.

But aren't YOU the one who is closing his mind? MY point is that I don't know the answer. I'm just a guy. I'm not a climate scientist or a doctor or an astrophysicist or a car mechanic. Just like you, I suspect, I'm someone who relies on experts in their field to help me make decisions in areas I know nothing about. Trusting experts in their field is how the world works. It's why we have cabinet members and secretaries of state and defense, etc. We trust these people to advise us on matters we're not qualified to make judgments on.

Like I said before, if I take my car to 100 mechanics and 97 of them tell me my brakes are shot, it's damned stupid of me to side with the 3 who disagree and put everyone's life at risk by continuing to drive that car. But that's basically what you're doing. You're basically saying "all you folks who study this stuff for a living don't know shit." And yet you call those who defer to the experts arrogant and closed minded. I think you've got it backwards there.

The brake analogy doesn't work.  GW theories can't be fully tested using scientific method, so they are models or speculation.  And as I pointed out, vaccines aren't tested as they are used.  Can't test on children and infants and the tests isolate them one by one.  So we have no scientific proof that giving an infant 8 shots is safe.  The only proof we have is long term results in the population.  And the results aren't that promising right now. 

All I am saying is that we should have the choice.  We should have some transparency in how they are made, some competition, and some responsibility on the maker.  Right now we have none of that.  Pharmaceuticals are protected by the National Child Vaccine Injury Act.  The federal vaccine injury compensation program actually handles the payments when a child is injured and has paid out nearly 4 billion.

So the taxpayers help fund the vaccines, and then are responsible for the bill if they cause an injury.  Nice work if you can get it.