Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
I assume its because most of us were in agreement that we needed to get another upgrade at OL, and many thought that the draft played to getting a good one at 30. when the draft didnt fall that way some were so invested in that mentality they couldnt fathom that the team had other plans in place or contingency plans at any rate. I think we have some younger guys that could step up, as well as a vet in Compton that could find a place. They have options, just not fancy new high draft pick options. The team needs to start finding cheaper mid/late round guys that can play at a decent level and OL seems to be a place where most teams can save cap space (except for LT) I am really hoping that Isisdora shows a big jump or somebody else on the cheap that we can move on from Remmers deal after this year, and possibly Reiff in 2 years.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
I've been making that argument for years. So many fans tend to think you need highly drafted players at every position to compete on the highest level. It's just objectively wrong. As you and I have pointed out many times, Super Bowl rosters are studded with "league average" players. They HAVE TO be, especially if you're paying a QB.
If you look at the offensive linemen who were selected to the Pro Bowl last year, 2 were 2nd rounders, 6 were 3rd rounders, 1 was a 4th rounder and 2 were undrafted. In addition to that, Jason Peters, who if healthy would've been, was undrafted. Ryan Schraeder, a 2015 PFF all pro, was undrafted, and Andrew Norwell, who didn't make the Pro Bowl, but was named All Pro last year, was undrafted.
...and yet there is no hope for the development of Aviante Collins and Rashod Hill. No, I don't think the Vikings necessarily "made a mistake" by drafting Hughes over one of those guards.
But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little frustrated by how the draft fell for us. It felt a little like 2016 to me. For example, I'd feel a little more stoked right now if one of the NFL's best secondaries brought in a 3rd rounder to compete with Mack Alexander...and those first two picks were offensive linemen.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
This is a bit misleading.
They signed Stefen Wisniewski in 2016 as a free agent to a one year deal. It was his 6th season and he was that 2nd round pick.
They signed Brandon Brooks in 2016 as a free agent to a five year deal. It was his 5th season and he was that 3rd round pick.
They drafted Jason Kelce in the 6th round of the 2011 draft. He has been good since his 2nd season.
They drafted Halapoulivaati Vaitai in the 5th round of the 2016 draft. He is barely serviceable. If Griffen was not hurting he should have handled him easily.
They drafted Lane Johnson in the 1st round of the 2013 draft.
Jason Peters was the UDFA who they struck gold with like the Vikings and Thielen.
The Vikings have a 1st round pick (Reiff), 3rd round pick (Elflein), 2nd round pick (O'Neill), 5th round pick (Isidora), two 6th round picks (Gossett & Compton), and the rest were un-drafted free agents.
When the Eagles signed Wisniewski and Brooks they both were experienced and had played well up to that point in their careers. They already had Kelce and Peters who were Pro bowlers and Johnson was on his way as he made it in 2017.
That is a strong line they created prior to the 2016 season.
The Vikings line still consists of players that will have to get better fast. They do not have any guard as good as Wisniewski and Brooks were in 2016 when they were signed as free agents. Maybe you could argue Remmers is as good as Wisniewski but Remmers was signed to be a tackle and does not have much experience at guard.
It is fine to try and build a line with picks later than the first two rounds.
But the window the Vikings have is NOW. They have more than a few players 29 or older and we cannot assume these players will continue to play at their current levels for 2 to 3 more years. We can hope they do but the odds are not good.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
FSUVike,
I don't think you can compare past drafts to this one because there seems to have been a shift in Philosophy across the league. The importance being placed on Offensive Lineman has never been higher. Franchise Left Tackles have always been in high demand, but the focus on investing high picks into the interior positions has really increased the past few drafts. You can't score points and win games if your franchise QB is always on his back.
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
The Eagles still made a significant investment in their O'Line through the draft. Last year, our highest drafted player starting on the line was Elflein in the Third Round. Our two starting tackles were free agents and so was Berger. Easton was the only other Starter we actually signed as an UDFA.
Hill was an UDFA signed off of Jacksonville's Practice Squad
Sirles was a Free Agent
Collins was an UDFA the Vikings signed out of TCU
Isidora was drafted by the Vikings in the 5th
Beavers and Clemmings both drafted in the 4th round couldn't even make the team.
My issue with Rick is that he hasn't invested enough through the draft into our OLine. Right or Wrong, that's been his philosophy since he's been here.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
Just because the Eagles were able to do it doesn't mean that we won't see the OLine hamstring our 2018 attempt at winning a SB. The Eagles starting line last year had 34 years of experience (500+ starts) going into the season with the least experienced player having 4 years of experience. Our Oline going into the season is going to have 13 years of experience over the 4 returning starters (150ish starts) and likely fill in the 5th position with a guy who has less than 15 starts. Our 3rd most experienced OLineman has 17 starts to his career.
Are we trying to win now or are we waiting until our OLine prospects get 4-6 years of experience so that they can weather injuries? And while we can say that RT was the biggest need against NO, we didn't get a RT that is starting ready, but our 2022 OLine is projecting to be pretty solid so there's that.
I do like Hughes a lot though and he will contribute, but our OLine is downgraded pretty noticeably compared to last year, and we haven't addressed it so far in any way that will impact this year, unless O'Neill rapidly gains either technique or strength.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
Just because the Eagles were able to do it doesn't mean that we won't see the OLine hamstring our 2018 attempt at winning a SB. The Eagles starting line last year had 34 years of experience (500+ starts) going into the season with the least experienced player having 4 years of experience. Our Oline going into the season is going to have 13 years of experience over the 4 returning starters (150ish starts) and likely fill in the 5th position with a guy who has less than 15 starts. Our 3rd most experienced OLineman has 17 starts to his career.
Are we trying to win now or are we waiting until our OLine prospects get 4-6 years of experience so that they can weather injuries? And while we can say that RT was the biggest need against NO, we didn't get a RT that is starting ready, but our 2022 OLine is projecting to be pretty solid so there's that.
I do like Hughes a lot though and he will contribute, but our OLine is downgraded pretty noticeably compared to last year, and we haven't addressed it so far in any way that will impact this year, unless O'Neill rapidly gains either technique or strength.
how do you say the OL is down graded? Berger was serviceable but never really made anybody comfortable with the job he was doing, and Sirles never really found a position as he was jumped all over so he never really settled in anywhere. I think they will be just as good or better in terms of getting our better younger guys more quality reps in camp to better prepare them for real snaps. (Isidora, Collins, Hill as well as the new guys) also the addition of the Compton and Andrews should more than make up for what we lost. IMO our line will be better as long as it can stay relatively healthy, the last 2 years are ridiculous in terms of having to juggle players across the front 5. I hope they learn to just take the next man up at the position instead of sliding guys left and right to get in a guy that has worked all offseason at a different position.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ FSUVike said:
Why does the starting RG have to come.from a first or second round pick?
A.legit question nobody will answer. The Eagles have the best Line. They have a first, second, third, sixth and UDFA as their starters with a fifth round pick getting lots of PT at LT.
Three and often four of there starters came after the 2nd Round. And those likely came from shallower drafts than this past one. So not exactly a bunch of steals that got pushed down the board due to a deep O-Line draft.
So explain to me exactly how Minnesota screwed up this draft by not getting an RG in the first or second.
I agree with 65. The draft hit all the big holes that got exposed in the Saints game.
Just because the Eagles were able to do it doesn't mean that we won't see the OLine hamstring our 2018 attempt at winning a SB. The Eagles starting line last year had 34 years of experience (500+ starts) going into the season with the least experienced player having 4 years of experience. Our Oline going into the season is going to have 13 years of experience over the 4 returning starters (150ish starts) and likely fill in the 5th position with a guy who has less than 15 starts. Our 3rd most experienced OLineman has 17 starts to his career.
Are we trying to win now or are we waiting until our OLine prospects get 4-6 years of experience so that they can weather injuries? And while we can say that RT was the biggest need against NO, we didn't get a RT that is starting ready, but our 2022 OLine is projecting to be pretty solid so there's that.
I do like Hughes a lot though and he will contribute, but our OLine is downgraded pretty noticeably compared to last year, and we haven't addressed it so far in any way that will impact this year, unless O'Neill rapidly gains either technique or strength.
a pretty good post Medaille. Its unfortunate that the Vikes have had some very bad luck with top O line draft picks. McKnnie, Cook, Loadholt, Kahlil just to name a few have been disappontments. So what do yu do? Give up and draft more cornerbacks? lol
At some point yu have to say it might be a problem with coaching, scouting/evaluation or scheme or both. It would be nice to ignore it but it isnt going away. it is a problem and it will prevent them from winning it all.
Quote: @minny65 said:
I think we addressed our 5 biggest needs this offseason either through FA or draft with late cuts to come:
QB - Zimmer never bought into Case and being the guy - so we go get Cousins
DL - need better interior players to rotate so we go get Richardson who can also play end
Nickle - per my OP - Alexander needs to be pushed or moved outside as backup so we draft Hughes
Right-side blocking - I see Remmers back there with O'Neil as backup/swing and Hill as LT backup only
Guard replacement for Berger - tons of competition on roster, free agents and draft plus late cuts.
These guys don't need to be high draft picks, but I am surprised there was little or no effort to reinforce the OL in free agency - not a Riley Reiff, but someone better than Tom Compton (who I think is about the level of Jeremiah Sirles). Someone like Cameron Fleming, who started much of last season at RT for the Patriots, and signed with the Cowboys for only $2.5M, would have been nice insurance on the right without breaking the bank.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ minny65 said:
I think we addressed our 5 biggest needs this offseason either through FA or draft with late cuts to come:
QB - Zimmer never bought into Case and being the guy - so we go get Cousins
DL - need better interior players to rotate so we go get Richardson who can also play end
Nickle - per my OP - Alexander needs to be pushed or moved outside as backup so we draft Hughes
Right-side blocking - I see Remmers back there with O'Neil as backup/swing and Hill as LT backup only
Guard replacement for Berger - tons of competition on roster, free agents and draft plus late cuts.
These guys don't need to be high draft picks, but I am surprised there was little or no effort to reinforce the OL in free agency - not a Riley Reiff, but someone better than Tom Compton (who I think is about the level of Jeremiah Sirles). Someone like Cameron Fleming, who started much of last season at RT for the Patriots, and signed with the Cowboys for only $2.5M, would have been nice insurance on the right without breaking the bank.
Remember Jor-El, according to Rick, you can't just go around signing competent free agent lineman, or drafting a stud like Will Hernandez, it's all about scheme fit.
|
