Quote: @Purplewhizz said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
But what if he doesn't think Cousins is a "top" QB?
Honestly Geoff, I guess I'll get behind it and hope for the best, what choice do I have? But how can I trust that Zimmer wants the 'top' QB when he's already said he just wants a QB that won't mess with his defensive talent? He wants a game manager, somebody that doesn't create a lot of turnovers. That gets you decent regular seasons but disappointing post seasons. I want a killer mentality. Zimmer talks and thinks like a glorified defensive coordinator, not a HC.
Welcome to Minneapolis, the Kansas City of the North.
I think part of his trouble is he dependence on listening to Parcells. The game has changed a great deal since Parcells coached.
Now when was the last time he said anything about going to Parcells for advice?
Holy shit it's amazing how fast people want to throw Zim under the bus. And for those that don't think his input is valuable in finding a QB, who the hell do you think he watches on film all the time to see how to build his great defenses? He studies QBs and likely has more input on their weaknesses and tendencies than a lot of offensive minds.
I think what he is saying is being taken out of context, if a brady or rogers was the one wanting 30 million then I doubt he is talking about the cap implications, bit it's not, the rumored 30 mill guy isn't even close to them. Same goes for over paying keenum, if he's looking for north of 15 he's nuts as well.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Purplewhizz said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
But what if he doesn't think Cousins is a "top" QB?
Honestly Geoff, I guess I'll get behind it and hope for the best, what choice do I have? But how can I trust that Zimmer wants the 'top' QB when he's already said he just wants a QB that won't mess with his defensive talent? He wants a game manager, somebody that doesn't create a lot of turnovers. That gets you decent regular seasons but disappointing post seasons. I want a killer mentality. Zimmer talks and thinks like a glorified defensive coordinator, not a HC.
Welcome to Minneapolis, the Kansas City of the North.
I think part of his trouble is he dependence on listening to Parcells. The game has changed a great deal since Parcells coached.
Now when was the last time he said anything about going to Parcells for advice?
Holy shit it's amazing how fast people want to throw Zim under the bus. And for those that don't think his input is valuable in finding a QB, who the hell do you think he watches on film all the time to see how to build his great defenses? He studies QBs and likely has more input on their weaknesses and tendencies than a lot of offensive minds.
I think what he is saying is being taken out of context, if a brady or rogers was the one wanting 30 million then I doubt he is talking about the cap implications, bit it's not, the rumored 30 mill guy isn't even close to them. Same goes for over paying keenum, if he's looking for north of 15 he's nuts as well.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/17/parcells-advises-zimmer-to-urge-players-to-forget-unforgettable-finish/
The new OC is going to have a lot of say in this as is RS...My hope is that the very transparent Zimmer (he is a bad liar in public) is being a great poker player. Frankly it seemed appropriate timing for Zimmer or RS to throw a little water on all the Cousins to Vikings fires.
That said, I am becoming concerned we got an old school coach who wont ever get to the big game by being just fine with average to good on offense. North titles dont cut it for this fan.
I will be watching to see how his D evolves this season as well. It's officially and publicly be been exposed and humiliated.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Purplewhizz said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
But what if he doesn't think Cousins is a "top" QB?
Honestly Geoff, I guess I'll get behind it and hope for the best, what choice do I have? But how can I trust that Zimmer wants the 'top' QB when he's already said he just wants a QB that won't mess with his defensive talent? He wants a game manager, somebody that doesn't create a lot of turnovers. That gets you decent regular seasons but disappointing post seasons. I want a killer mentality. Zimmer talks and thinks like a glorified defensive coordinator, not a HC.
Welcome to Minneapolis, the Kansas City of the North.
I think part of his trouble is he dependence on listening to Parcells. The game has changed a great deal since Parcells coached.
Now when was the last time he said anything about going to Parcells for advice?
Holy shit it's amazing how fast people want to throw Zim under the bus. And for those that don't think his input is valuable in finding a QB, who the hell do you think he watches on film all the time to see how to build his great defenses? He studies QBs and likely has more input on their weaknesses and tendencies than a lot of offensive minds.
I think what he is saying is being taken out of context, if a brady or rogers was the one wanting 30 million then I doubt he is talking about the cap implications, bit it's not, the rumored 30 mill guy isn't even close to them. Same goes for over paying keenum, if he's looking for north of 15 he's nuts as well.
I think you are taking it the wrong way. Zimmer himself said publicly that he did not get involved too much with the offense until this past season. As a fan, who knows nothing really about what Zimmer does or does not know about QBs or offenses, I just go by what he has publicly said and try to interpret.
Sure he knows QBs and how he wants to defend them. 100% without a doubt. But does he know how he wants them to develop and what little things they need to practice like he does with DBs? Could he become a QB coach or OC?
Then, you see that Zimmer, Spielman, etc. have seen all 3 current QBs all year and STILL have not made a decision. Come on man. They don't need no more time. Trying to act like they need to discuss all of these dudes again, when you know they probably already have til their blue in the face, is comical to me. They said they needed JDF's input too. That part I can understand a little.
So, I don't know about throwing no coach under the bus. The facts of his involvement in the offense have been public knowledge (from his own mouth) since he got here. Why would anyone really believe he is the guy you want choosing a QB?
Quote: @Purplewhizz said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Purplewhizz said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
But what if he doesn't think Cousins is a "top" QB?
Honestly Geoff, I guess I'll get behind it and hope for the best, what choice do I have? But how can I trust that Zimmer wants the 'top' QB when he's already said he just wants a QB that won't mess with his defensive talent? He wants a game manager, somebody that doesn't create a lot of turnovers. That gets you decent regular seasons but disappointing post seasons. I want a killer mentality. Zimmer talks and thinks like a glorified defensive coordinator, not a HC.
Welcome to Minneapolis, the Kansas City of the North.
I think part of his trouble is he dependence on listening to Parcells. The game has changed a great deal since Parcells coached.
Now when was the last time he said anything about going to Parcells for advice?
Holy shit it's amazing how fast people want to throw Zim under the bus. And for those that don't think his input is valuable in finding a QB, who the hell do you think he watches on film all the time to see how to build his great defenses? He studies QBs and likely has more input on their weaknesses and tendencies than a lot of offensive minds.
I think what he is saying is being taken out of context, if a brady or rogers was the one wanting 30 million then I doubt he is talking about the cap implications, bit it's not, the rumored 30 mill guy isn't even close to them. Same goes for over paying keenum, if he's looking for north of 15 he's nuts as well.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/17/parcells-advises-zimmer-to-urge-players-to-forget-unforgettable-finish/
parcels can say what he wants, it doesnt mean the Zim is soliciting his advice or even following it, as far as prepping for a big game and shit like that, I doubt that part of the game has changed, in terms of building rosters and scheming yes its changed and I am sure that Zim has enough sense to take what anybody tells him with the due it deserves.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/14/sports...-moon.html
Here's an article written in 1994 for the New York Times that includes when we were in talks to acquire Warren Moon. It's just a bit of a historical footnote for your reading pleasure. Look at those salaries for starting QBs!
In 1994, the salary cap was $34.608 million...
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Purplewhizz said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
But what if he doesn't think Cousins is a "top" QB?
Honestly Geoff, I guess I'll get behind it and hope for the best, what choice do I have? But how can I trust that Zimmer wants the 'top' QB when he's already said he just wants a QB that won't mess with his defensive talent? He wants a game manager, somebody that doesn't create a lot of turnovers. That gets you decent regular seasons but disappointing post seasons. I want a killer mentality. Zimmer talks and thinks like a glorified defensive coordinator, not a HC.
Welcome to Minneapolis, the Kansas City of the North.
I think part of his trouble is he dependence on listening to Parcells. The game has changed a great deal since Parcells coached.
Now when was the last time he said anything about going to Parcells for advice?
Holy shit it's amazing how fast people want to throw Zim under the bus. And for those that don't think his input is valuable in finding a QB, who the hell do you think he watches on film all the time to see how to build his great defenses? He studies QBs and likely has more input on their weaknesses and tendencies than a lot of offensive minds.
I think what he is saying is being taken out of context, if a brady or rogers was the one wanting 30 million then I doubt he is talking about the cap implications, bit it's not, the rumored 30 mill guy isn't even close to them. Same goes for over paying keenum, if he's looking for north of 15 he's nuts as well.
I think you are taking it the wrong way. Zimmer himself said publicly that he did not get involved too much with the offense until this past season. As a fan, who knows nothing really about what Zimmer does or does not know about QBs or offenses, I just go by what he has publicly said and try to interpret.
Sure he knows QBs and how he wants to defend them. 100% without a doubt. But does he know how he wants them to develop and what little things they need to practice like he does with DBs? Could he become a QB coach or OC?
Then, you see that Zimmer, Spielman, etc. have seen all 3 current QBs all year and STILL have not made a decision. Come on man. They don't need no more time. Trying to act like they need to discuss all of these dudes again, when you know they probably already have til their blue in the face, is comical to me. They said they needed JDF's input too. That part I can understand a little.
So, I don't know about throwing no coach under the bus. The facts of his involvement in the offense have been public knowledge (from his own mouth) since he got here. Why would anyone really believe he is the guy you want choosing a QB?
We dont want any 1 person choosing our QB, it needs to be a group effort. Zims input can really help in showing flaws in a QBs game that he would exploit with a defensive scheme, then its up to the OC and position coach to decide if those flaws can be fixed or can be schemed to protect. Yes Zim had been hands off and I think that was more to the point of letting Norv do what ever he wanted with no questions asked, I think when the wheels came off and Norv left is when Zim saw that his "hands off" approach wasnt right and started asking questions. IMO losing that autonomy over the offense is what led to Norvs abrupt departure. I dont think he is dabbling with coaching up positions or the Xs and Os of play calling or scheming, but to work at identifying players his football experience should be used.
As far as the last 6 quarters of defense, yep they were bad, but what we dont know is what Zim was working with. We wonder why he didnt do this or that, but honestly do we think that we are in a better position to say what should have been done? I questioned the lack of rotation that night, but i also conceded that I didnt know the health status of the other players or if they were even a better option. it was the defense that got us there this year, seems pretty silly to say that they are the reason we lost when our O did nothing to help them at key parts of the game.
Quote: @kmillard said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm all in on whatever, I've said this from Day One, but if Zimmer isn't interested in trying to get a top QB because he's concerned about 'defensive talent' and how a QB would impact that salary cap-wise, the team will only ever be so good. It will be limited. Bridesmaids forever.
Its a freakin' QBs league in the NFL. He can quote all the stats he wants, but the only stat that counts is a complete ass kicking in a NFC Championship game and a 1-2 record in the playoffs. Let's not be the Kansas City Chiefs.
We are officially the Chiefs of the NFC for the last 20 years.
I wish we were the Chiefs. We'd at least have one SB victory. B)
I agree with Zim. It sounds to me like he doesn't want to break the bank on some FA QB that's a moderate upgrade from Case (actually downgrade from a healthy Sam).
If we end up with Cousins, whatever; good, hope it works out, but if we don't, no big deal me. He's not that much better than Case, and who knows about Teddy? Cousins is not an elite QB, and overspending for an above average QB that can ultimately hurt salaries for other star player doesn't sound good to me.
For those of you that seem to have forgotten that Case actually had a
GREAT season, take a look at this vid when the Vikings played the
Redskins. Both QBs made great throws, but Case was way more efficient.
Case had a couple bad picks, but Cousins had a killer one too that was
really a horrible throw.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
The new OC is going to have a lot of say in this as is RS...My hope is that the very transparent Zimmer (he is a bad liar in public) is being a great poker player. Frankly it seemed appropriate timing for Zimmer or RS to throw a little water on all the Cousins to Vikings fires.
That said, I am becoming concerned we got an old school coach who wont ever get to the big game by being just fine with average to good on offense. North titles dont cut it for this fan.
I will be watching to see how his D evolves this season as well. It's officially and publicly be been exposed and humiliated.
PF, back in September, did you expect the Vikings to win the SB? How about a couple weeks later after losing both Bradford and Cook, did you expect to see them even make the playoffs?
Zim got his team to the NFCC game with very key pieces of the team missing, and it's not enough for a fan like you? Come on...
|
