Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
That's a really negative perspective. I'm known for being objective to the point of critical, but you're just assuming all things go wrong for this team. I'm not afraid of any of these QBs playing well for other teams - except when they compete against the Vikings. If Bridgewater takes the Dolphins to the playoffs, great for him - but it means they won a gamble the Vikings did not want to take. Wishing former players ill? That's as bad as Adrian Peterson saying he was unhappy to see the Vikings and Saints in the playoffs.
And why would it be "typical Viking fashion" to make a mistake signing Cousins that wrecks multiple seasons? A lot of people here are fretting about a big QB contract hurting the team's salary cap. I know it could, but have the Vikings ever done that? Unless you're referring to the contract Adrian Peterson signed, I can't think of this team giving out a deal that strangled the salary cap. I'm hardly a big Peterson fan and even I wouldn't say that was a failure. People should look at the front office's good record with managing salaries and have some confidence we won't do a deal that turns this team into the Dolphins or Redskins suddenly.
bretts 2 years significantly affected how the team was able to reload at other positions. every high priced guy that doesnt perform at a top level is affecting the cap in a negative way and ultimately hurting the teams ability to sign and or retain better players. just because we made it through some lean years of talent and didnt lose "our" guys, doesnt mean those high contracts didnt hurt our cap and ultimately our team.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
That's a really negative perspective. I'm known for being objective to the point of critical, but you're just assuming all things go wrong for this team. I'm not afraid of any of these QBs playing well for other teams - except when they compete against the Vikings. If Bridgewater takes the Dolphins to the playoffs, great for him - but it means they won a gamble the Vikings did not want to take. Wishing former players ill? That's as bad as Adrian Peterson saying he was unhappy to see the Vikings and Saints in the playoffs.
And why would it be "typical Viking fashion" to make a mistake signing Cousins that wrecks multiple seasons? A lot of people here are fretting about a big QB contract hurting the team's salary cap. I know it could, but have the Vikings ever done that? Unless you're referring to the contract Adrian Peterson signed, I can't think of this team giving out a deal that strangled the salary cap. I'm hardly a big Peterson fan and even I wouldn't say that was a failure. People should look at the front office's good record with managing salaries and have some confidence we won't do a deal that turns this team into the Dolphins or Redskins suddenly.
Nowhere in what I wrote did I say either myself or any of the members here would wish ill on players that leave. Not sure where you pulled that out of. With regard to making the wrong choice at QB I'm thinking back to the days of Johnson and Cunningham, or, as Jimmy mentioned, (which is more applicable in a comparison scenario to the current situation) the signing of Favre. We kept Cunningham and traded Johnson. It wasn't a good choice. In the case of Favre, we went all-in and begged him to come back for 1 more year for the 2010 season and that failed miserably. Do I have confidence in the front office? I definitely have more confidence than you think. I don't know why the universe rolls the way it does but this team has had a lot of tough luck surrounding the QB position, especially over the past couple seasons. Now, is that the front office's fault? No. It's fate, or whatever else you want to call it. Ever heard people say the team is cursed? That's what I'm talking about....some unseen force seems to have the Vikings' number...kind of a tongue in cheek thing that unfortunately has been what we've experienced as fans of this team. Hopefully that clarifies a little better for you what I meant by my post.
Quote: @prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
When have the Vikings ever emptied the wallet for a FA that didn't fit while the guy they let walk went on to play well?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
I don't think it's a slam dunk, just an obvious possibility. Keenum to Denver has been my gut feeling for a while now. Personally I'd like to see the team give Sam another shot if his knee is as good as Andrews said, but that is definitely not an idea that is in the rumor mill right now, it's all Cousins. And the rumor mill is pretty ridiculous, like 60 mil for the first year and fully guaranteed from the Jets. How can you negotiate anything if your starting position is "here take it all and more, please, did we bend over far enough?!" This is high b.s. season.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
When have the Vikings ever emptied the wallet for a FA that didn't fit while the guy they let walk went on to play well?
I don't remember if they emptied the wallet for Cunningham, but the guy they traded (Brad Johnson) did pretty well with the Bucs.
Listen, if the team feels Cousins is the best option going forward then I'm behind it. I guess the pessimist in me can't get over the downhill roll of bad luck we've had at the QB position on the team since, well, forever. We haven't had long-term stability at the position since Tarkenton. We had short-term success with guys like Moon, Cunningham and Favre. I guess I envy the Green Bays and New Englands of the league.
I was hoping Teddy would develop into a good QB for us...never expected anyone to be "franchise" like Brady or Brees or Rogers but one can always hope. I'm still hoping Teddy will be with the team but like everyone else I'm more than a little concerned about his knee going forward.
I fully expect Cousins to sign with the Jets and Rick to panic and sign Case long-term and he'll revert to the mean while Sloter fails to develop. It's what you have to expect as a Vikings fan.
If I were as old as some of the other posters I'd also expect Sam & Teddy to revitalize their careers elsewhere, but I'm not quite that jaded yet 
I have a feeling the teams not in the cousins chase will be moving quickly, while the 2 or 3 in the cousins game will be forced to wait out his decision ( which really means his agent will be dragging his feet hoping somebody gets nervous and ups the bid) I see Cleveland, Buffalo, AZ and Miami coming to terms with QBs during the tamper period while the jets, broncos, and Vikings are waiting it out. now maybe with their knees being what they are it will slow the process for Teddy and Sam to pass physicals before an agreement is reached, but maybe not since they were both cleared to play following their injuries.
Not too worried if they do not get Cousins, Sam, Teddy, or Case. They can always pivot to McCarron or move way up in the draft.
I personally would move up if I signed Case, Sam, or Teddy.
The Texans moved up to #12 using their #25 pick and a 2018 1st.
If a QB they liked was there around #11 or #12 they can move up.
Any notion that they cannot afford to give up a 1st is nonsense especially when you consider they have wasted the last two first round picks on Bradford and Treadwell.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
That's a really negative perspective. I'm known for being objective to the point of critical, but you're just assuming all things go wrong for this team. I'm not afraid of any of these QBs playing well for other teams - except when they compete against the Vikings. If Bridgewater takes the Dolphins to the playoffs, great for him - but it means they won a gamble the Vikings did not want to take. Wishing former players ill? That's as bad as Adrian Peterson saying he was unhappy to see the Vikings and Saints in the playoffs.
And why would it be "typical Viking fashion" to make a mistake signing Cousins that wrecks multiple seasons? A lot of people here are fretting about a big QB contract hurting the team's salary cap. I know it could, but have the Vikings ever done that? Unless you're referring to the contract Adrian Peterson signed, I can't think of this team giving out a deal that strangled the salary cap. I'm hardly a big Peterson fan and even I wouldn't say that was a failure. People should look at the front office's good record with managing salaries and have some confidence we won't do a deal that turns this team into the Dolphins or Redskins suddenly.
bretts 2 years significantly affected how the team was able to reload at other positions. every high priced guy that doesnt perform at a top level is affecting the cap in a negative way and ultimately hurting the teams ability to sign and or retain better players. just because we made it through some lean years of talent and didnt lose "our" guys, doesnt mean those high contracts didnt hurt our cap and ultimately our team.
I don't disagree with you, but these situations are very different. After the 2008 season the Vikings knew they had 2 years to seriously compete before re-tooling. Going all in on Favre made sense to maximize those two years. But going all in on Favre also meant that the end of the run would be more painful since you wouldn't be bringing in other free agents to supplement team weaknesses. The old NFC Championship rule also screwed them since the Vikings were not allowed to sign any outside free agents in an uncapped year. Bringing in Favre left the Vikings with little depth at the end of their window which was only one year.
This time around the majority of the Vikings core is locked in for 3+ years with the ability to still lock in Diggs, Hunter, Barr, and Kendricks. With a QB like Cousins that should keep the window open for a number of years (3 or 4). Going in on a QB will force the team to draft well to keep the level of depth they've been accustomed to, but the risks aren't nearly as high.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
Not too worried if they do not get Cousins, Sam, Teddy, or Case. They can always pivot to McCarron or move way up in the draft.
I personally would move up if I signed Case, Sam, or Teddy.
The Texans moved up to #12 using their #25 pick and a 2018 1st.
If a QB they liked was there around #11 or #12 they can move up.
Any notion that they cannot afford to give up a 1st is nonsense especially when you consider they have wasted the last two first round picks on Bradford and Treadwell.
in reference to this post and others about trading away picks, at some point we are going to be needing some young talent on this team. continually trading away day 1and day 2 picks to move up is going to catch up with the over all talent level on the team. we are where we are because of hitting on first, second, and third rounders.
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