You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
Quote: @HappyViking said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
I suppose the same could be said about the Vikings, if they miss out on Cousins. Do you think Case, Sam, and possibly Teddy would be insulted by RS and the Vikings by not being their top priority? If they don't win the bidding for Cousins, have you heard any other names the Vikes are interested in (not named Sam, Case, or Teddy)?
This has occurred to me as well. All 3 could flip us the bird and move on.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
does a team that just inked a player for 3-5 years at 30 million a year, then spend a premium first round pick on that players back up? not typically, so the draft would only play into denvers scenario if they miss out on Cousins IMO. they are either in to a point or they are not. I assume, just like the Vikings, they have a value in mind and will not get into a bidding war, as no team should. if they end up with Cousins they will use that 5 pick on another position or trade down for more picks.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
I would assume it at least gives Denver some leverage when it comes to cost. They can play it like it isn't Cousins or bust (even though it kind of is). But its either or with Cousins and a draft pick. They won't sign a top-tier QB and follow it up with a high profile rookie QB. That'd be more of a fall back plan. Denver's pursuit of Kirk isn't because they're rebuilding, they are trying to get the most out of their current window which is closing. With Kirk and a high draft pick they think they can turn it around in the interim while at least Miller is still around.
Quote: @prairieghost said:
@ HappyViking said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
I suppose the same could be said about the Vikings, if they miss out on Cousins. Do you think Case, Sam, and possibly Teddy would be insulted by RS and the Vikings by not being their top priority? If they don't win the bidding for Cousins, have you heard any other names the Vikes are interested in (not named Sam, Case, or Teddy)?
This has occurred to me as well. All 3 could flip us the bird and move on.
To be honest, its the nature of the business. Player and agents know that everyone can't be retained and teams need to consider what is best for them. Of course the player has a choice when they get to free agency, but money will talk. A nice contract will show anyone who was allowed to hit the market some commitment.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
does a team that just inked a player for 3-5 years at 30 million a year, then spend a premium first round pick on that players back up? not typically, so the draft would only play into denvers scenario if they miss out on Cousins IMO. they are either in to a point or they are not. I assume, just like the Vikings, they have a value in mind and will not get into a bidding war, as no team should. if they end up with Cousins they will use that 5 pick on another position or trade down for more picks.
You're right about Denver choosing one or the other. My point was that Denver could lose interest in Cousins because they really like the idea of drafting a QB. GMs and coaches go to the combine and fall in love with prospects, especially QBs. Denver could make that happen; Minnesota probably cannot. Maybe I am just hoping Elway decides he needs Josh Allen and aims for Keenum as his bridge QB.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
does a team that just inked a player for 3-5 years at 30 million a year, then spend a premium first round pick on that players back up? not typically, so the draft would only play into denvers scenario if they miss out on Cousins IMO. they are either in to a point or they are not. I assume, just like the Vikings, they have a value in mind and will not get into a bidding war, as no team should. if they end up with Cousins they will use that 5 pick on another position or trade down for more picks.
You're right about Denver choosing one or the other. My point was that Denver could lose interest in Cousins because they really like the idea of drafting a QB. GMs and coaches go to the combine and fall in love with prospects, especially QBs. Denver could make that happen; Minnesota probably cannot. Maybe I am just hoping Elway decides he needs Josh Allen and aims for Keenum as his bridge QB.
Teams almost always do the opposite of what they tried and failed at last time. And that was drafting Paxton Lynch. Denver definitely wants to go the free agent route this time around. Not that it will work out for them, or that they won't do both, but the buzz in town is definitely screaming free agent. And it sounds like they're even willing to part ways with some of their big names to make it happen.
Quote: @prairieghost said:
You know what's the most confusing thing about all of this??? The mixed and twisted perceptions about these guys. For me, when I read all of these comments I end up feeling like the 3 guys we have are junk. Yup. Junk. Then, I read about other teams' interests and suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps they aren't junk, they're just junk when they play for the Vikings. Why would this be? I'm not really sure, but I'm betting a good majority of the posters here at VF are afraid any one or all of these guys (Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum) could go to their respective new teams and have success. And, in typical Viking fashion, we blow the wallet on Cousins and end up 7-9 for the next 4 years....
That's a really negative perspective. I'm known for being objective to the point of critical, but you're just assuming all things go wrong for this team. I'm not afraid of any of these QBs playing well for other teams - except when they compete against the Vikings. If Bridgewater takes the Dolphins to the playoffs, great for him - but it means they won a gamble the Vikings did not want to take. Wishing former players ill? That's as bad as Adrian Peterson saying he was unhappy to see the Vikings and Saints in the playoffs.
And why would it be "typical Viking fashion" to make a mistake signing Cousins that wrecks multiple seasons? A lot of people here are fretting about a big QB contract hurting the team's salary cap. I know it could, but have the Vikings ever done that? Unless you're referring to the contract Adrian Peterson signed, I can't think of this team giving out a deal that strangled the salary cap. I'm hardly a big Peterson fan and even I wouldn't say that was a failure. People should look at the front office's good record with managing salaries and have some confidence we won't do a deal that turns this team into the Dolphins or Redskins suddenly.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I still don't understand why everyone is thinking Cousins to MN is this slam dunk right now. Its not like agents ever drive up the market for their clients ever....
Point being, from who I talk to the Vikings will be in play but the Broncos likely still have just as good of a chance to sign Kirk. The Jets are a close 3rd, but they're almost the wildcard since nobody knows how hard they'll come after him. Winning is important, but the Jets are the team who could still outbid the market to the extent it doesn't really matter what other opportunities present themselves.
I will say this about the Broncos though. If they end up losing out on the Kirk Cousins derby they'll quickly pivot to Case Keenum. They had interest in him last off-season and Kubiak (FO adviser now) gave Case his first opportunity in the league.
How much does the draft affect the bidding for Cousins? I see it as a significant factor that differentiates Minnesota and Denver. The Broncos could fall in love with a QB prospect, and from the #5 spot, they could make a move for any of them. Then does Cousins want to go to a team with a rookie looking over his shoulder? They were 5-11 last year, no one will be surprised if they start rebuilding. OTOH, the Vikings don't have a realistic shot at one of the top draft QBs, and definitely don't want to rebuild. So doesn't the Broncos' interest in Cousins have a ton to do with their interest in a rookie QB?
does a team that just inked a player for 3-5 years at 30 million a year, then spend a premium first round pick on that players back up? not typically, so the draft would only play into denvers scenario if they miss out on Cousins IMO. they are either in to a point or they are not. I assume, just like the Vikings, they have a value in mind and will not get into a bidding war, as no team should. if they end up with Cousins they will use that 5 pick on another position or trade down for more picks.
You're right about Denver choosing one or the other. My point was that Denver could lose interest in Cousins because they really like the idea of drafting a QB. GMs and coaches go to the combine and fall in love with prospects, especially QBs. Denver could make that happen; Minnesota probably cannot. Maybe I am just hoping Elway decides he needs Josh Allen and aims for Keenum as his bridge QB.
that would be great for Minny, if it worked out that way, but I would think a team that is in a win now mode like denver would be looking for the most solid starter they could afford.... this is where the discussions usually go awry.... especially for denver. if they go rookie QB with a bridge guy they still have to win now as their window ( others term not mine) is currently open, however if they settle for a rookie and Case and they dont make the playoffs.... how long will the fans stand pat waiting for an unproven rookie to develop. smart play for elway is to get a QB in there now that can get them to the playoffs and still be looking for a future one in later rounds or next year. maybe case can do that, but I have my doubts. after this years debacle at the qb position in denver and the raiders and chiefs rise to the top of the west, elway needs a strong move to put denver back into the discussion.
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