Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I dont think that is necessarily true. I think both Bradford and Bridgewater will be able to be had affordably as both have some serious concerns to work through. (the only question here is are they both willing to compete here in Minny for the job or do they think it should be theirs to lose?) Case is likely going to get the best contract due to his success this year, I dont think he is the better of the 3, but he has proven to be effective with minimal turn over issues and of course, as the saying goes, the best ability is availability, and he was able to stay relatively healthy all year. If they sign Case (15-20 guranteed is likely) I doubt they would then be able to get Sam or Teddy to do a contract small enough (with enough guaranteed) to keep them here.
We need to face the facts... the Vikings will have to choose between one of the three in-house options or get Cousins. Even if the money would work, do you think we could convince any of these guys to re-sign here knowing they'll have to beat out another potential starter to win the job? Doubtful. Especially when there are plenty of other teams that could offer them an opportunity to start.
if thats truly the situation, I roll with Teddy. With this defense we dont need a big improvement on O, just a little more consistency and accuracy. Yes Case had some good numbers, but I think there was a lot of YAC left on the field this year due to ball placement and not spreading the ball around more often, I think Teddy would do a better job of this without sacrificing ball security. As I have stated, I have a very difficult time with Cousins ball security despite his gaudy passing numbers and paying him 25-30 million a year to do so is concerning. However, I think there is a lot of smoke right now surrounding all 3 of these guys so I have no idea what the right play would be... and I dont think there is a fan out here that really does despite all the table pounding.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
It's an interesting take because he really thinks Cousins is pretty good.
But he still believes the Vikings should pass on a better QB to go with a cheaper QB.
It's amazing really.
Way too many fans worried about cap space and signing the current soon to be free agents and would rather spend less on a QB than on a LB or WR.
LBs and WRs can be found in free agency. QBs? Not too often.
All you have to do is look at the change in receivers this past season in Washington, the complete lack of a running game, and see that Cousins was still productive to realize what he was able to do.
I saw some statistics that showed when trailing in a game, the differences between Keenum and Cousins. It was pretty stark. I also keep getting back to a 73 QBR on Case vs Eagles/Saints.
That said, we all know how stats can be tortured to tell a story  It doesn't sound that by signing Cousins the Vikings are handicapped cap wise, so I think that can come off the table.
So it comes down to who do they think is the best qb moving forward with their new OC?
Would be awesome to be a fly on the wall while the is getting discussed/debated in Winter Park.
Stefanski and Keenum have a great relationship. Now that he is staying, it will be interesting to see how much influence he will have in the decision a long with Defilippo who I'm sure knows Cousins as good as anybody since the Eagles faced him twice a year. The last two seasons, Cousins had a 2-2 record against the Eagles and threw a pick in each game. His performances seem so up and down from one week to the next when you look at his stats. I think Barr None is correct that Zimmer would have an issue with that inconsistency and turnovers for the kind of money he wants unless they convince themselves that putting him in the right system and better decision making will correct that.
That's just it. A good supporting cast can correct a lot of inconsistency and turnovers. You take Diggs and Thielen away from Keenum and replace them Doctson and Crowder, you'd have seen a lot more inconsistency and turnovers from him.
Let's also not forget what Zimmer said (and didn't say) about Case Keenum...that he had a "horseshoe" and "big balls" and that he "wouldn't hesitate" to put Bradford in if Keenum fell apart in the playoff games. He also never once proclaimed Keenum as his indefinite starter. I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the kind of signals you would send about a QB you intend to hitch your fortunes to, especially when your stated goal is to take the offense to the "next level."
I think the Vikings would keep Keenum if they could sign him to a low-cost, relatively short term contract, and also keep Bridgewater. I just don't think that can happen.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
It's an interesting take because he really thinks Cousins is pretty good.
But he still believes the Vikings should pass on a better QB to go with a cheaper QB.
It's amazing really.
Way too many fans worried about cap space and signing the current soon to be free agents and would rather spend less on a QB than on a LB or WR.
LBs and WRs can be found in free agency. QBs? Not too often.
All you have to do is look at the change in receivers this past season in Washington, the complete lack of a running game, and see that Cousins was still productive to realize what he was able to do.
I saw some statistics that showed when trailing in a game, the differences between Keenum and Cousins. It was pretty stark. I also keep getting back to a 73 QBR on Case vs Eagles/Saints.
That said, we all know how stats can be tortured to tell a story It doesn't sound that by signing Cousins the Vikings are handicapped cap wise, so I think that can come off the table.
So it comes down to who do they think is the best qb moving forward with their new OC?
Would be awesome to be a fly on the wall while the is getting discussed/debated in Winter Park.
Stefanski and Keenum have a great relationship. Now that he is staying, it will be interesting to see how much influence he will have in the decision a long with Defilippo who I'm sure knows Cousins as good as anybody since the Eagles faced him twice a year. The last two seasons, Cousins had a 2-2 record against the Eagles and threw a pick in each game. His performances seem so up and down from one week to the next when you look at his stats. I think Barr None is correct that Zimmer would have an issue with that inconsistency and turnovers for the kind of money he wants unless they convince themselves that putting him in the right system and better decision making will correct that.
That's just it. A good supporting cast can correct a lot of inconsistency and turnovers. You take Diggs and Thielen away from Keenum and replace them Doctson and Crowder, you'd have seen a lot more inconsistency and turnovers from him.
Let's also not forget what Zimmer said (and didn't say) about Case Keenum...that he had a "horseshoe" and "big balls" and that he "wouldn't hesitate" to put Bradford in if Keenum fell apart in the playoff games. He also never once proclaimed Keenum as his indefinite starter. I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the kind of signals you would send about a QB you intend to hitch your fortunes to, especially when your stated goal is to take the offense to the "next level."
I think the Vikings would keep Keenum if they could sign him to a low-cost, relatively short term contract, and also keep Bridgewater. I just don't think that can happen.
MB,
PA had Draft Guru Matt Miller from Bleacher Report on today. Everything he is hearing is that Keenum won't be back and that he thinks they have to explore what they have in Teddy if he is 100% healthy. He thinks he has more to offer than Keenum. He didn't go into any detail on if the Vikings also have that same perspective, including Defillipo, or if this is just his opinion. If Teddy's contract tolls, I still like the idea of Franchising Keenum and the let the two fight it out for the starting job.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
It's an interesting take because he really thinks Cousins is pretty good.
But he still believes the Vikings should pass on a better QB to go with a cheaper QB.
It's amazing really.
Way too many fans worried about cap space and signing the current soon to be free agents and would rather spend less on a QB than on a LB or WR.
LBs and WRs can be found in free agency. QBs? Not too often.
All you have to do is look at the change in receivers this past season in Washington, the complete lack of a running game, and see that Cousins was still productive to realize what he was able to do.
I saw some statistics that showed when trailing in a game, the differences between Keenum and Cousins. It was pretty stark. I also keep getting back to a 73 QBR on Case vs Eagles/Saints.
That said, we all know how stats can be tortured to tell a story It doesn't sound that by signing Cousins the Vikings are handicapped cap wise, so I think that can come off the table.
So it comes down to who do they think is the best qb moving forward with their new OC?
Would be awesome to be a fly on the wall while the is getting discussed/debated in Winter Park.
Stefanski and Keenum have a great relationship. Now that he is staying, it will be interesting to see how much influence he will have in the decision a long with Defilippo who I'm sure knows Cousins as good as anybody since the Eagles faced him twice a year. The last two seasons, Cousins had a 2-2 record against the Eagles and threw a pick in each game. His performances seem so up and down from one week to the next when you look at his stats. I think Barr None is correct that Zimmer would have an issue with that inconsistency and turnovers for the kind of money he wants unless they convince themselves that putting him in the right system and better decision making will correct that.
That's just it. A good supporting cast can correct a lot of inconsistency and turnovers. You take Diggs and Thielen away from Keenum and replace them Doctson and Crowder, you'd have seen a lot more inconsistency and turnovers from him.
Let's also not forget what Zimmer said (and didn't say) about Case Keenum...that he had a "horseshoe" and "big balls" and that he "wouldn't hesitate" to put Bradford in if Keenum fell apart in the playoff games. He also never once proclaimed Keenum as his indefinite starter. I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the kind of signals you would send about a QB you intend to hitch your fortunes to, especially when your stated goal is to take the offense to the "next level."
I think the Vikings would keep Keenum if they could sign him to a low-cost, relatively short term contract, and also keep Bridgewater. I just don't think that can happen.
MB,
PA had Draft Guru Matt Miller from Bleacher Report on today. Everything he is hearing is that Keenum won't be back and that he thinks they have to explore what they have in Teddy if he is 100% healthy. He thinks he has more to offer than Keenum. He didn't go into any detail on if the Vikings also have that same perspective, including Defillipo, or if this is just his opinion. If Teddy's contract tolls, I still like the idea of Franchising Keenum and the let the two fight it out for the starting job.
I really do not like using the games vs the Eagles as some kind of barometer for Cousins.
In the first game this year he was tied for the leading rusher with 30 yards. He did throw an interception at the goal line with 12:21 left in the 4th and then he got hit and fumbled that Cox ran in for a TD with 30 seconds left.
In the second game he threw for 303 yards and 3 TDs and was the second leading rusher with 18 yards. Unfortunately, he does not play defense because they allowed Carson Wentz to throw for 4 TDs.
In 2016, the Redskins won both games.
I think the focus on turnovers is silly. All QBs in their first 3 years starting in the NFL (and 4th through 6th seasons) have had the same amount of turnovers as Cousins.
In the last 3 years he has accounted for 94 TDs and 47 turnovers (only fumbles that were lost). That is top 6 in the NFL.
I keep reading a lot of worry about the turnovers but rarely read anything about those 94 TDs.
It will take some guts to want to "explore" what they have with Teddy when the team is ready to win now.
They better be right.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
It's an interesting take because he really thinks Cousins is pretty good.
But he still believes the Vikings should pass on a better QB to go with a cheaper QB.
It's amazing really.
Way too many fans worried about cap space and signing the current soon to be free agents and would rather spend less on a QB than on a LB or WR.
LBs and WRs can be found in free agency. QBs? Not too often.
All you have to do is look at the change in receivers this past season in Washington, the complete lack of a running game, and see that Cousins was still productive to realize what he was able to do.
I saw some statistics that showed when trailing in a game, the differences between Keenum and Cousins. It was pretty stark. I also keep getting back to a 73 QBR on Case vs Eagles/Saints.
That said, we all know how stats can be tortured to tell a story It doesn't sound that by signing Cousins the Vikings are handicapped cap wise, so I think that can come off the table.
So it comes down to who do they think is the best qb moving forward with their new OC?
Would be awesome to be a fly on the wall while the is getting discussed/debated in Winter Park.
Stefanski and Keenum have a great relationship. Now that he is staying, it will be interesting to see how much influence he will have in the decision a long with Defilippo who I'm sure knows Cousins as good as anybody since the Eagles faced him twice a year. The last two seasons, Cousins had a 2-2 record against the Eagles and threw a pick in each game. His performances seem so up and down from one week to the next when you look at his stats. I think Barr None is correct that Zimmer would have an issue with that inconsistency and turnovers for the kind of money he wants unless they convince themselves that putting him in the right system and better decision making will correct that.
That's just it. A good supporting cast can correct a lot of inconsistency and turnovers. You take Diggs and Thielen away from Keenum and replace them Doctson and Crowder, you'd have seen a lot more inconsistency and turnovers from him.
Let's also not forget what Zimmer said (and didn't say) about Case Keenum...that he had a "horseshoe" and "big balls" and that he "wouldn't hesitate" to put Bradford in if Keenum fell apart in the playoff games. He also never once proclaimed Keenum as his indefinite starter. I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the kind of signals you would send about a QB you intend to hitch your fortunes to, especially when your stated goal is to take the offense to the "next level."
I think the Vikings would keep Keenum if they could sign him to a low-cost, relatively short term contract, and also keep Bridgewater. I just don't think that can happen.
MB,
PA had Draft Guru Matt Miller from Bleacher Report on today. Everything he is hearing is that Keenum won't be back and that he thinks they have to explore what they have in Teddy if he is 100% healthy. He thinks he has more to offer than Keenum. He didn't go into any detail on if the Vikings also have that same perspective, including Defillipo, or if this is just his opinion. If Teddy's contract tolls, I still like the idea of Franchising Keenum and the let the two fight it out for the starting job.
I really do not like using the games vs the Eagles as some kind of barometer for Cousins.
In the first game this year he was tied for the leading rusher with 30 yards. He did throw an interception at the goal line with 12:21 left in the 4th and then he got hit and fumbled that Cox ran in for a TD with 30 seconds left.
In the second game he threw for 303 yards and 3 TDs and was the second leading rusher with 18 yards. Unfortunately, he does not play defense because they allowed Carson Wentz to throw for 4 TDs.
In 2016, the Redskins won both games.
I think the focus on turnovers is silly. All QBs in their first 3 years starting in the NFL (and 4th through 6th seasons) have had the same amount of turnovers as Cousins.
In the last 3 years he has accounted for 94 TDs and 47 turnovers (only fumbles that were lost). That is top 6 in the NFL.
I keep reading a lot of worry about the turnovers but rarely read anything about those 94 TDs.
It will take some guts to want to "explore" what they have with Teddy when the team is ready to win now.
They better be right.
Unfortunately, none of our opinions matter. Whether we like it or not, Zimmer is extremely conservative and turnovers I'm sure will be heavily weighted in his decision making process. If the reports are true that Keenum is going elsewhere, then I'm definitely all in on Cousins if we can get him in the $27 to $28 million per year range.
We have the cap space to make that work and still have money to fill holes through FA and the draft. What will be interesting to see is if the other QB Hungry Teams drive his price up over $30 million per year and if the Vikings push all of their chips in the middle of the table and hitch their wagon to Cousins.
Here is my super deep perspective: I'm not worried at all. I trust the coaching staff to get the most out of whomever they choose.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
It's an interesting take because he really thinks Cousins is pretty good.
But he still believes the Vikings should pass on a better QB to go with a cheaper QB.
It's amazing really.
Way too many fans worried about cap space and signing the current soon to be free agents and would rather spend less on a QB than on a LB or WR.
LBs and WRs can be found in free agency. QBs? Not too often.
All you have to do is look at the change in receivers this past season in Washington, the complete lack of a running game, and see that Cousins was still productive to realize what he was able to do.
I saw some statistics that showed when trailing in a game, the differences between Keenum and Cousins. It was pretty stark. I also keep getting back to a 73 QBR on Case vs Eagles/Saints.
That said, we all know how stats can be tortured to tell a story It doesn't sound that by signing Cousins the Vikings are handicapped cap wise, so I think that can come off the table.
So it comes down to who do they think is the best qb moving forward with their new OC?
Would be awesome to be a fly on the wall while the is getting discussed/debated in Winter Park.
Stefanski and Keenum have a great relationship. Now that he is staying, it will be interesting to see how much influence he will have in the decision a long with Defilippo who I'm sure knows Cousins as good as anybody since the Eagles faced him twice a year. The last two seasons, Cousins had a 2-2 record against the Eagles and threw a pick in each game. His performances seem so up and down from one week to the next when you look at his stats. I think Barr None is correct that Zimmer would have an issue with that inconsistency and turnovers for the kind of money he wants unless they convince themselves that putting him in the right system and better decision making will correct that.
That's just it. A good supporting cast can correct a lot of inconsistency and turnovers. You take Diggs and Thielen away from Keenum and replace them Doctson and Crowder, you'd have seen a lot more inconsistency and turnovers from him.
Let's also not forget what Zimmer said (and didn't say) about Case Keenum...that he had a "horseshoe" and "big balls" and that he "wouldn't hesitate" to put Bradford in if Keenum fell apart in the playoff games. He also never once proclaimed Keenum as his indefinite starter. I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the kind of signals you would send about a QB you intend to hitch your fortunes to, especially when your stated goal is to take the offense to the "next level."
I think the Vikings would keep Keenum if they could sign him to a low-cost, relatively short term contract, and also keep Bridgewater. I just don't think that can happen.
MB,
PA had Draft Guru Matt Miller from Bleacher Report on today. Everything he is hearing is that Keenum won't be back and that he thinks they have to explore what they have in Teddy if he is 100% healthy. He thinks he has more to offer than Keenum. He didn't go into any detail on if the Vikings also have that same perspective, including Defillipo, or if this is just his opinion. If Teddy's contract tolls, I still like the idea of Franchising Keenum and the let the two fight it out for the starting job.
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that. That's kinda what I'm sensing, too. There's no doubt in my mind that a healthy Teddy has more to offer than Case Keenum. The team loves Teddy Bridgewater, and not just because he's a nice guy. I just have a hard time seeing them cutting ties to him unless that knee is a bigger concern than they've let on.
Just don't see how that Teddy's knee and 2 years off won't be a major concern for the foreseeable future. For all of Case's shortcomings, his feel for where the pressure was coming from and ability to buy time was absolutely huge. There's no way Teddy skips out of the way of those tackles this past season. Keenum was Houdini-like, and made our o-line look much better than they were for most of the season.
Like it or not Teddy and Sam will be signing for back up money with the opportunity to compete for a starters role whether it be with us or somebody else. If they believe in themselves they should be signing short deals with big incentives.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
Just don't see how that Teddy's knee and 2 years off won't be a major concern for the foreseeable future. For all of Case's shortcomings, his feel for where the pressure was coming from and ability to buy time was absolutely huge. There's no way Teddy skips out of the way of those tackles this past season. Keenum was Houdini-like, and made our o-line look much better than they were for most of the season.
Like it or not Teddy and Sam will be signing for back up money with the opportunity to compete for a starters role whether it be with us or somebody else. If they believe in themselves they should be signing short deals with big incentives.
ted heads dont quite get this yet.
Quote: @kmillard said:
ted heads dont quite get this yet.
lol, thanks for sharing.
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