Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
I wonder if the Vikings will want to pay two linebackers close to 10 mil each?
If they don't then they have to make a move.
The Patriots traded Jamie Collins Oct 31, 2016 for a 3rd round pick because he was going to be too expensive to keep.
They decided to extend Hightower instead. Hightower got a 4 year 35.5 mil deal on March 15, 2017.
They wisely traded for Kyle Van Noy on Oct 26, 2016 picking him up
only for a swap of their 6th round pick for the Lions 7th round pick.
He is really playing well for them in his first full season after not
doing much with the Lions.
Is he an equal to Collins? Maybe? He has had a better year this
year but Collins got hurt in November and only played in 6 games.
Van Noy signed a 2 year 11.757 mil deal in Sept.
Barr is
going to get 12.3 mil next year and it becomes guaranteed when the new
league year begins.
Barr has 283 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 20 passes defended, and 1 interception.
Telvin Smith has 452 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 24 passes defended, and 7 interceptions in four seasons.
Smith signed a 4 year 45 mil deal. Is Barr worth that much?
If the Vikings decided to move Barr then I am guessing they probably would get a high 3rd (Raiders or 49ers) based on the Jamie
Collins trade.
The only reason to move him would be from a salary cap perspective and the 12.3 mil saved would have to be used on a replacement. Maybe Nigel Bradham or Zach Brown?
Tough decision for the team but they likely will face decisions like who to pay very soon.
I would give Hunter a 5 yr 65 mil deal with 48 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 20 mil based off the Jason Pierre-Paul deal.
I would give Diggs a 4 year 45 mil deal with 22 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 8 mil based off the Keenan Allen deal whom they are very close statistically after 3 seasons.
I would wait on Kendricks.
Why would you wait on Kendricks? If he hits the market next winter, I think demand will be huge. No reason to think he will have a bad year and let us sign him at a bargain.
I think your estimated deals for Hunter and Diggs are very solid, but don't see why they would be higher priorities than the LBs. Geoff expresses a strong argument for Barr, and there are definitely indications that Zimmer feels that way, and also indicates Barr is not eager to leave. We have a huge advantage in those 2 LBs and think we will keep it. If Zimmer has input - and he will - he is going to keep his defense together if at all possible.
Also, IMO it is really dangerous to cite Patriots moves/strategies. They are a unique team that is not copied like a recipe, I don't know how but they get some players to stay on cheaper deals and manage to recycle rejects from other teams. Maybe they have some cult going on. But they also have personnel flops of their own, like Dominique Easley, and those hardly get mentioned.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
I wonder if the Vikings will want to pay two linebackers close to 10 mil each?
If they don't then they have to make a move.
The Patriots traded Jamie Collins Oct 31, 2016 for a 3rd round pick because he was going to be too expensive to keep.
They decided to extend Hightower instead. Hightower got a 4 year 35.5 mil deal on March 15, 2017.
They wisely traded for Kyle Van Noy on Oct 26, 2016 picking him up
only for a swap of their 6th round pick for the Lions 7th round pick.
He is really playing well for them in his first full season after not
doing much with the Lions.
Is he an equal to Collins? Maybe? He has had a better year this
year but Collins got hurt in November and only played in 6 games.
Van Noy signed a 2 year 11.757 mil deal in Sept.
Barr is
going to get 12.3 mil next year and it becomes guaranteed when the new
league year begins.
Barr has 283 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 20 passes defended, and 1 interception.
Telvin Smith has 452 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 24 passes defended, and 7 interceptions in four seasons.
Smith signed a 4 year 45 mil deal. Is Barr worth that much?
If the Vikings decided to move Barr then I am guessing they probably would get a high 3rd (Raiders or 49ers) based on the Jamie
Collins trade.
The only reason to move him would be from a salary cap perspective and the 12.3 mil saved would have to be used on a replacement. Maybe Nigel Bradham or Zach Brown?
Tough decision for the team but they likely will face decisions like who to pay very soon.
I would give Hunter a 5 yr 65 mil deal with 48 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 20 mil based off the Jason Pierre-Paul deal.
I would give Diggs a 4 year 45 mil deal with 22 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 8 mil based off the Keenan Allen deal whom they are very close statistically after 3 seasons.
I would wait on Kendricks.
Why would you wait on Kendricks? If he hits the market next winter, I think demand will be huge. No reason to think he will have a bad year and let us sign him at a bargain.
I think your estimated deals for Hunter and Diggs are very solid, but don't see why they would be higher priorities than the LBs. Geoff expresses a strong argument for Barr, and there are definitely indications that Zimmer feels that way, and also indicates Barr is not eager to leave. We have a huge advantage in those 2 LBs and think we will keep it. If Zimmer has input - and he will - he is going to keep his defense together if at all possible.
Also, IMO it is really dangerous to cite Patriots moves/strategies. They are a unique team that is not copied like a recipe, I don't know how but they get some players to stay on cheaper deals and manage to recycle rejects from other teams. Maybe they have some cult going on. But they also have personnel flops of their own, like Dominique Easley, and those hardly get mentioned.
Well, I would only wait until November or December on Kendricks. The Vikings have done many extensions in those months for players who were going to be free agents.
It gives you a chance to see the player a little longer.
I could see Kendricks getting a deal similar to Mark Barron (5 yrs 45 mil) right now.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
I wonder if the Vikings will want to pay two linebackers close to 10 mil each?
If they don't then they have to make a move.
The Patriots traded Jamie Collins Oct 31, 2016 for a 3rd round pick because he was going to be too expensive to keep.
They decided to extend Hightower instead. Hightower got a 4 year 35.5 mil deal on March 15, 2017.
They wisely traded for Kyle Van Noy on Oct 26, 2016 picking him up
only for a swap of their 6th round pick for the Lions 7th round pick.
He is really playing well for them in his first full season after not
doing much with the Lions.
Is he an equal to Collins? Maybe? He has had a better year this
year but Collins got hurt in November and only played in 6 games.
Van Noy signed a 2 year 11.757 mil deal in Sept.
Barr is
going to get 12.3 mil next year and it becomes guaranteed when the new
league year begins.
Barr has 283 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 20 passes defended, and 1 interception.
Telvin Smith has 452 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 24 passes defended, and 7 interceptions in four seasons.
Smith signed a 4 year 45 mil deal. Is Barr worth that much?
If the Vikings decided to move Barr then I am guessing they probably would get a high 3rd (Raiders or 49ers) based on the Jamie
Collins trade.
The only reason to move him would be from a salary cap perspective and the 12.3 mil saved would have to be used on a replacement. Maybe Nigel Bradham or Zach Brown?
Tough decision for the team but they likely will face decisions like who to pay very soon.
I would give Hunter a 5 yr 65 mil deal with 48 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 20 mil based off the Jason Pierre-Paul deal.
I would give Diggs a 4 year 45 mil deal with 22 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 8 mil based off the Keenan Allen deal whom they are very close statistically after 3 seasons.
I would wait on Kendricks.
Why would you wait on Kendricks? If he hits the market next winter, I think demand will be huge. No reason to think he will have a bad year and let us sign him at a bargain.
I think your estimated deals for Hunter and Diggs are very solid, but don't see why they would be higher priorities than the LBs. Geoff expresses a strong argument for Barr, and there are definitely indications that Zimmer feels that way, and also indicates Barr is not eager to leave. We have a huge advantage in those 2 LBs and think we will keep it. If Zimmer has input - and he will - he is going to keep his defense together if at all possible.
Also, IMO it is really dangerous to cite Patriots moves/strategies. They are a unique team that is not copied like a recipe, I don't know how but they get some players to stay on cheaper deals and manage to recycle rejects from other teams. Maybe they have some cult going on. But they also have personnel flops of their own, like Dominique Easley, and those hardly get mentioned.
Well, I would only wait until November or December on Kendricks. The Vikings have done many extensions in those months for players who were going to be free agents.
It gives you a chance to see the player a little longer.
I could see Kendricks getting a deal similar to Mark Barron (5 yrs 45 mil) right now.
If you were going to wait on signing anyone, you'd be better off doing it for Barr. When next off-season rolls around the franchise tag isn't worth using on an ILB since it pools at LB's together without designation for pass rushing OLB's in a 34 (basically DE's). A tag would potentially make sense for Barr if you "needed" to use it. But Kendricks will be someone they lock up sooner than later. I don't really know why we'd have to see anything more out of him.
I don't think they have any need to see Kendricks longer; I would have more uncertainty about Hunter and Diggs. I think Kendricks will be closer to Bobby Wagner - 4 years $43M. He may be a notch below Wagner but inflation of salaries makes the difference.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
I wonder if the Vikings will want to pay two linebackers close to 10 mil each?
If they don't then they have to make a move.
The Patriots traded Jamie Collins Oct 31, 2016 for a 3rd round pick because he was going to be too expensive to keep.
They decided to extend Hightower instead. Hightower got a 4 year 35.5 mil deal on March 15, 2017.
They wisely traded for Kyle Van Noy on Oct 26, 2016 picking him up
only for a swap of their 6th round pick for the Lions 7th round pick.
He is really playing well for them in his first full season after not
doing much with the Lions.
Is he an equal to Collins? Maybe? He has had a better year this
year but Collins got hurt in November and only played in 6 games.
Van Noy signed a 2 year 11.757 mil deal in Sept.
Barr is
going to get 12.3 mil next year and it becomes guaranteed when the new
league year begins.
Barr has 283 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 20 passes defended, and 1 interception.
Telvin Smith has 452 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 24 passes defended, and 7 interceptions in four seasons.
Smith signed a 4 year 45 mil deal. Is Barr worth that much?
If the Vikings decided to move Barr then I am guessing they probably would get a high 3rd (Raiders or 49ers) based on the Jamie
Collins trade.
The only reason to move him would be from a salary cap perspective and the 12.3 mil saved would have to be used on a replacement. Maybe Nigel Bradham or Zach Brown?
Tough decision for the team but they likely will face decisions like who to pay very soon.
I would give Hunter a 5 yr 65 mil deal with 48 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 20 mil based off the Jason Pierre-Paul deal.
I would give Diggs a 4 year 45 mil deal with 22 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 8 mil based off the Keenan Allen deal whom they are very close statistically after 3 seasons.
I would wait on Kendricks.
Why would you wait on Kendricks? If he hits the market next winter, I think demand will be huge. No reason to think he will have a bad year and let us sign him at a bargain.
I think your estimated deals for Hunter and Diggs are very solid, but don't see why they would be higher priorities than the LBs. Geoff expresses a strong argument for Barr, and there are definitely indications that Zimmer feels that way, and also indicates Barr is not eager to leave. We have a huge advantage in those 2 LBs and think we will keep it. If Zimmer has input - and he will - he is going to keep his defense together if at all possible.
Also, IMO it is really dangerous to cite Patriots moves/strategies. They are a unique team that is not copied like a recipe, I don't know how but they get some players to stay on cheaper deals and manage to recycle rejects from other teams. Maybe they have some cult going on. But they also have personnel flops of their own, like Dominique Easley, and those hardly get mentioned.
Well, I would only wait until November or December on Kendricks. The Vikings have done many extensions in those months for players who were going to be free agents.
It gives you a chance to see the player a little longer.
I could see Kendricks getting a deal similar to Mark Barron (5 yrs 45 mil) right now.
If you were going to wait on signing anyone, you'd be better off doing it for Barr. When next off-season rolls around the franchise tag isn't worth using on an ILB since it pools at LB's together without designation for pass rushing OLB's in a 34 (basically DE's). A tag would potentially make sense for Barr if you "needed" to use it. But Kendricks will be someone they lock up sooner than later. I don't really know why we'd have to see anything more out of him.
They can extend Hunter, Diggs, and Kendricks plus sign a Cousins if they wanted.
I suggested Hunter and Diggs because they are set to get 735.5K and 705K respectively next year. Severely underpaid.
They can do those 3 and extend Barr (5 year 55 mil) which more than likely would lower his 12.3 mil cap hit by at least 4 mil which could be added to an extension for Kendricks. Since Kendricks is set to get 1.13 mil you would have 5.13 towards his first year cap number.
Add a few more and you are talking about extending both Barr and Kendricks for just 3 mil over their current cap figures.
I really do not care who they extend (or in what order) but I do recognize that Hunter and Diggs are not getting enough.
the only one that really hasnt shown what we want as a full time starter is Hunter. Barr, Kendricks and Diggs should all be locked up this offseason to spread their cap hits over the extra season for Diggs, and Kendricks, and to lower this years avg salary cap hit for Barr, they will have the extra cap money to cover the signing bonuses and to get their QB house of cards built and hopefully add a couple 3 free agents so that we dont go into the draft dependent on finding year 1 contributors at positions of need.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
the only one that really hasnt shown what we want as a full time starter is Hunter. Barr, Kendricks and Diggs should all be locked up this offseason to spread their cap hits over the extra season for Diggs, and Kendricks, and to lower this years avg salary cap hit for Barr, they will have the extra cap money to cover the signing bonuses and to get their QB house of cards built and hopefully add a couple 3 free agents so that we dont go into the draft dependent on finding year 1 contributors at positions of need.
Don't know about this. Here are some numbers for ends through their first 3 seasons ...
Vernon – 30 games started, 135 tackles, 21.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
Pierre Paul – 27 games started, 182 tackles, 27.5 sacks, and 5 forced fumbles
Muhammad Wilkerson – 47 games started, 181 tackles, 18.5 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles
Hunter – 17 games started, 134 tackles, 25.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
I think it is going to be even more expensive next off season to extend Hunter.
His agent will definitely bring up these comparable players. I would.
And Hunter has done it in less starts and snaps.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
the only one that really hasnt shown what we want as a full time starter is Hunter. Barr, Kendricks and Diggs should all be locked up this offseason to spread their cap hits over the extra season for Diggs, and Kendricks, and to lower this years avg salary cap hit for Barr, they will have the extra cap money to cover the signing bonuses and to get their QB house of cards built and hopefully add a couple 3 free agents so that we dont go into the draft dependent on finding year 1 contributors at positions of need.
Don't know about this. Here are some numbers for ends through their first 3 seasons ...
Vernon – 30 games started, 135 tackles, 21.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
Pierre Paul – 27 games started, 182 tackles, 27.5 sacks, and 5 forced fumbles
Muhammad Wilkerson – 47 games started, 181 tackles, 18.5 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles
Hunter – 17 games started, 134 tackles, 25.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
I think it is going to be even more expensive next off season to extend Hunter.
His agent will definitely bring up these comparable players. I would.
And Hunter has done it in less starts and snaps.
most of Hunters stats came in games where he was used situationally prior to this year. his dominance dropped this year when he was asked to be a nearly every down contributor. Maybe it comes back maybe it doesnt, but I certainly would like to see a little more before we pay him based on limited production and expect him to replicate those numbers as a full time player. his numbers look great but you have to think of those as 3 year stats, not the listed 17 game stats.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Barr is what makes the Vikings defense work. Look at it this way, he's the Vikings Alvin Kamara but on the defensive side of the ball. A complete X factor who can do everything fairly well. Trading him would be a mistake. He'll get an extension but he won't be paid like an edge rushing OLB. He'll be closer to Telvin Smith.
Barr is the quiet straw that stirs the drink. He can do so much and does it so well, it looks like he isn't doing much. Like Rhodes, offense try to avoid him. He isn't making splash plays, but he is taking away a large chunk of the field.
And I don't get the "doesn't want to be here" vibe. He is a bit different IMO, kinda quiet off the field from what I can tell. But I don't see any negative in his attitude.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
the only one that really hasnt shown what we want as a full time starter is Hunter. Barr, Kendricks and Diggs should all be locked up this offseason to spread their cap hits over the extra season for Diggs, and Kendricks, and to lower this years avg salary cap hit for Barr, they will have the extra cap money to cover the signing bonuses and to get their QB house of cards built and hopefully add a couple 3 free agents so that we dont go into the draft dependent on finding year 1 contributors at positions of need.
Don't know about this. Here are some numbers for ends through their first 3 seasons ...
Vernon – 30 games started, 135 tackles, 21.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
Pierre Paul – 27 games started, 182 tackles, 27.5 sacks, and 5 forced fumbles
Muhammad Wilkerson – 47 games started, 181 tackles, 18.5 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles
Hunter – 17 games started, 134 tackles, 25.5 sacks, and 3 forced fumbles
I think it is going to be even more expensive next off season to extend Hunter.
His agent will definitely bring up these comparable players. I would.
And Hunter has done it in less starts and snaps.
most of Hunters stats came in games where he was used situationally prior to this year. his dominance dropped this year when he was asked to be a nearly every down contributor. Maybe it comes back maybe it doesnt, but I certainly would like to see a little more before we pay him based on limited production and expect him to replicate those numbers as a full time player. his numbers look great but you have to think of those as 3 year stats, not the listed 17 game stats.
This is true. His sack numbers did decline this year while playing a lot more snaps.
The question is will he be able to produce while he continues to play the majority of snaps?
Considering he is only 23 years old and turns 24 On Oct 29th, I would have to believe his stamina will increase and he will get smarter.
A lot of players come into the league at 22 years old already and he is already 3 years into his career.
He looks good and locking him up now might be very wise.
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