Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
To keep it simple, the Vikings game plan didn't account for Foles' ability to throw the ball 15 yards + down the field. The Eagles hadn't hit anything past that for weeks and Peterson devised a game plan to give Foles the opportunity to air it out when nobody else expected it. The slants became more of an issue once the Vikings were trying to adjust their game plan on the fly. You can't expect Xavier or Trae to get inside leverage of Jeffery, the LB has to get underneath it. Once Barr came out of the game due to his injury the exploited that. It all comes down to a good game plan and play calling by Peterson.
The takeaway from the game is that the Vikings had a very poor defensive game plan when it mattered the most. But, if you go back and watch the Eagles offense since Wentz went down they'd been a very horizontal unit that tried to get RAC yardage. There is no way you would guess their approach would be to test the Vikings vertically all day long.
Accurate analysis, but I have another takeaway: Mike Zimmer has not yet learned how to win in the playoffs. No way to guess the Eagles would throw deep? Foles has a good arm and deep threats, and good playoff coaches will play outside what they did in the regular season - especially after seeing Drew Brees expose our pass defense. Vikings approached both playoff games like they did regular-season games. Maybe in week 9 the Saints, down by 17, would start thinking about next week. Maybe in the regular season, Doug Pederson would follow normal patterns, but why not throw out the playbook for the game that takes his team to the Super Bowl?
I don't hate Zimmer, I'm not saying he is on the hot seat or should be fired. Best Vikings coach since Denny Green, and he could eventually rank higher. But: he has faced a learning curve about being a head coach. Not great his first year, then better in his second - but he went 11-5 on an easier schedule and by beating losing teams in the regular season. Until 2017, he won most of his games against weaker teams. This year, he learned how to beat good teams - in the regular season. He has become a winning regular-season coach, now he needs to become a playoff winner. I think he will, but it's frustrating. I fear the team will take a bit of a step back in 2018 due to OC and QB changes (and because this team seems to alternate good years with mediocre ones), so it might be 2019 before he settles those and gets another shot for the SB.
I think you make a decent point Jor. But I think it is deeper than Zimmer and not all on his shoulders. I think the team needs to learn as well.
Saw a breakdown several years back about teams that make it to the superbowl. Very few teams that didn't have a playoff win in the past year or 2 made it to the superbowl. I can't remember it all exactly, but there was a set of tiers. Teams that made the playoffs previously (last year or 2) had a chance at a deep playoff run. Teams that had won a playoff game had a chance at making the superbowl.
It isn't 100%, but it goes to the thought process that teams need to learn to win in the playoffs as you say. I think he will come back a better coach, and if the team stays healthy, I think they can make a deep run again next year.
For me that applies to most sports in general. The entire organization progressively learns how to move deeper into the Playoffs and eventually winning it all.
Zimmer gets his fair share of criticism from me but I'm also quick to laud him for growing each off season. This one will likely be spent talking to mentors and colleagues about how not to blow a big lead in the Playoffs and how to anticipate tendency breakers from opponents (as well as developing some of his own).
Hopefully he also pays more attention to how his lack of substituting DEs really hurt the pass rush late in the year.
Quote: @greediron said:
I think you make a decent point Jor. But I think it is deeper than Zimmer and not all on his shoulders. I think the team needs to learn as well.
Saw a breakdown several years back about teams that make it to the superbowl. Very few teams that didn't have a playoff win in the past year or 2 made it to the superbowl. I can't remember it all exactly, but there was a set of tiers. Teams that made the playoffs previously (last year or 2) had a chance at a deep playoff run. Teams that had won a playoff game had a chance at making the superbowl.
It isn't 100%, but it goes to the thought process that teams need to learn to win in the playoffs as you say. I think he will come back a better coach, and if the team stays healthy, I think they can make a deep run again next year.
Interesting breakdown and not surprising. Zimmer, organization, players, whatever - we looked like we didn't know that the playoffs are a different animal. I am definitely not saying Zimmer should go. He is no more flawed than any other rookie head coach - but some people forget he is a rookie HC, probably because of his age. I do think he is open to improvement, not stubborn like some coaches, and will get better. I'm just impatient...
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ greediron said:
I think you make a decent point Jor. But I think it is deeper than Zimmer and not all on his shoulders. I think the team needs to learn as well.
Saw a breakdown several years back about teams that make it to the superbowl. Very few teams that didn't have a playoff win in the past year or 2 made it to the superbowl. I can't remember it all exactly, but there was a set of tiers. Teams that made the playoffs previously (last year or 2) had a chance at a deep playoff run. Teams that had won a playoff game had a chance at making the superbowl.
It isn't 100%, but it goes to the thought process that teams need to learn to win in the playoffs as you say. I think he will come back a better coach, and if the team stays healthy, I think they can make a deep run again next year.
Interesting breakdown and not surprising. Zimmer, organization, players, whatever - we looked like we didn't know that the playoffs are a different animal. I am definitely not saying Zimmer should go. He is no more flawed than any other rookie head coach - but some people forget he is a rookie HC, probably because of his age. I do think he is open to improvement, not stubborn like some coaches, and will get better. I'm just impatient...
I think he knew, but maybe didn't know how to impress it upon the players. But then again, the Miracle isn't something you can really prepare for. One of the top moments ever in the playoffs.
I think BRob gets it as a player as he is the only one to have been there in 09. Many of the other kids probably think this happens every other year.
But I also agree, Zimmer seems open to improvement and new ideas. I like our current leadership.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ greediron said:
I think you make a decent point Jor. But I think it is deeper than Zimmer and not all on his shoulders. I think the team needs to learn as well.
Saw a breakdown several years back about teams that make it to the superbowl. Very few teams that didn't have a playoff win in the past year or 2 made it to the superbowl. I can't remember it all exactly, but there was a set of tiers. Teams that made the playoffs previously (last year or 2) had a chance at a deep playoff run. Teams that had won a playoff game had a chance at making the superbowl.
It isn't 100%, but it goes to the thought process that teams need to learn to win in the playoffs as you say. I think he will come back a better coach, and if the team stays healthy, I think they can make a deep run again next year.
Interesting breakdown and not surprising. Zimmer, organization, players, whatever - we looked like we didn't know that the playoffs are a different animal. I am definitely not saying Zimmer should go. He is no more flawed than any other rookie head coach - but some people forget he is a rookie HC, probably because of his age. I do think he is open to improvement, not stubborn like some coaches, and will get better. I'm just impatient...
I think he knew, but maybe didn't know how to impress it upon the players. But then again, the Miracle isn't something you can really prepare for. One of the top moments ever in the playoffs.
I think BRob gets it as a player as he is the only one to have been there in 09. Many of the other kids probably think this happens every other year.
But I also agree, Zimmer seems open to improvement and new ideas. I like our current leadership.
If it's really about "the Miracle" affecting players, it has to be some form of players thinking, "we're DESTINED to win it all!"...right?
If so, the coaches should have called all the players in Monday morning - no celebrating - sat them down in front of a repeating tape of the first 29:50 of the second half against the Saints, and impressed upon them that they were soundly beaten and only an incredibly lucky break put them in the next round. They had the Saints game won, they screwed up royally, and should have been treated like a team that had lost a game.
I don't think it was the destined thinking, I think it was the energy and emotion and distraction. How many interviews did Case and Diggs do that week? How many nights did the stay up way too late talking to friends/relatives/media about it?
The emotion of it had to be tiring. So when the INT happened, did the fatigue fill the void left by that emotion?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ savannahskol said:
@ pumpf said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ pumpf said:
Since no one else mentioned it: the slants were the product of the Eagle's "RPO" (Run - Pass Option) plays, where the QB has the option of handing the ball to the RB or throwing it. In essence, it is a play-action pass, designed to force the LB's to stay in the box and defend the run. At that point, the slant becomes "wide open". If we keep our LB's back in the passing lanes, then the QB hands off. The way *I* would've defended it would've been to play man defense and line our CBs up on the inside of the WR's- in effect taking away the slant (but giving up any kind of "out" route).
I have never understood giving inside leverage to a wide receiver... never. I will always want my DBs to take away the inside first and then force the QB to beat them over the top where hopefully the S is able to assist.
That's exactly what I coach my DBs to do (unless it's a zone... which we didn't run much because I like to blitz too much).
By the way, I am pretty sure that the coaching staff "assumed" that we could take away the deep passes by putting pressure on Foles. It didn't happen. Our DBs weren't used to covering guys that long- and often they "gave up" because they assumed the play HAD to be over by then. And then the ball went sailing over their heads...
I thought you were an O-Line coach? 
The Rev can do it all. He can have a crowd on their feet screaming on friday night, and have them sitting quietly in prayer on Sunday. That's only 2 days, just imagine what he accomplishes with the other 5....
Yikes, I didn't know that there was more to this thread! If they're screaming on Friday night, it's probably to put their kid in. And on Sunday... they're quiet... because they're sleeping.
As for Savannah's question: I've pretty much coached every position except RB. But I played OL in college, so I like to think that that's what I know best.
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