Quote: @Tom Moore said:
@ greediron said:
Crappy speculation from Bleacher report based on Tomasson tweets. Oh boy. And with the continued harping on the "Zimmer never committed to Keenum" line.
You have to be careful with Tomasson's tweets. I sat in my first Zimmer press conference on Sunday, and it is clear that he is annoyed by Tomasson. Chris asked 3 questions of Mike on Sunday, and each was met with either yes, or no answers.
Personally, I think it is a bit unfortunate that Case was not better supported by Mike publically, until his play was so good, he simply had to start.
I have no idea where Bridgewater stands, he just feels like he is on the outside looking in since the Washington game. I think (but don't know) that he expected to be re-inserted as the starter by the last 4-5 games. I think had Sam been healthy all year, he would not have expected to supplant a guy who had been starting most of the 2 years he was out.
And then Sam. He has a whale of talent, is still young at 30, but is injury-prone. Just a fact. Physically, he is bigger than Case or Teddy. Case has the best mobility to buy time, Sam the most accurate, and Teddy is a mixed bag - usually calm in the pocket, can read a defense and doesn't make a ton of mistakes, but also had been very iffy on his passing game beyond 20 yards.
So, all that said, if I am the coach - these are the things I do (in order of preference)
* Sign both Bradford and Keenum for about $25M-$30M a year. Figure out in the first year, which one is the guy. Let Bridgewater go in FA
* Sign either Bradford or Keenum and keep Bridgewater - similar price tag.
* Keep just Bradford and go with Sloter as the #2
* Keep just Keenum and go with Sloter as the #2
* Go get Kirk Cousins and go with Sloter as the #2
* Go get Alex Smith and go with Sloter as the #2 (at 33, Smith is a short term fix, then Sloter in 2-3 years)
* Go with Bridgewater and go with Sloter as the #2 (I don't hate Bridgewater, but I just don't know if we have the Bridgewater we had right before he got hurt, or a changed QB. He had been more of a game manager for his first 2 years, and seemed about to break through in preseason 2016, but we have almost no data points except his short 2017 debut vs Cincy)
My biggest fear is that we have our QB for the next 5 years on our roster now, and we decide to let him go and he blows-it-up somewhere else, while we keep the one who either gets injured or doesn't pan out (like Randall Cunningham in 1999, while Brad Johnson went on to great success in Washington and a Super Bowl title in Tampa)
no matter who they pick they will be hyper scrutinized by a majority of the fans... this IMO is pretty much a coin flip between the 3 in terms of likely to succeed. I put all 3 at less than 50% to have a successful next 4 years in terms of starter production. Sam from injuries, Case...from the unknowns, and Teddy... well even more unknowns, but also IMO higher potential growth due to his youth.
I would love the chance to know what they know and make the decision for them... but kinda glad my job doesnt depend on getting it right... i think this is going to hang on Rick for the rest of his career.... good or bad.
Quote: @Tom Moore said:
@ greediron said:
Crappy speculation from Bleacher report based on Tomasson tweets. Oh boy. And with the continued harping on the "Zimmer never committed to Keenum" line.
You have to be careful with Tomasson's tweets. I sat in my first Zimmer press conference on Sunday, and it is clear that he is annoyed by Tomasson. Chris asked 3 questions of Mike on Sunday, and each was met with either yes, or no answers.
Personally, I think it is a bit unfortunate that Case was not better supported by Mike publically, until his play was so good, he simply had to start.
I have no idea where Bridgewater stands, he just feels like he is on the outside looking in since the Washington game. I think (but don't know) that he expected to be re-inserted as the starter by the last 4-5 games. I think had Sam been healthy all year, he would not have expected to supplant a guy who had been starting most of the 2 years he was out.
And then Sam. He has a whale of talent, is still young at 30, but is injury-prone. Just a fact. Physically, he is bigger than Case or Teddy. Case has the best mobility to buy time, Sam the most accurate, and Teddy is a mixed bag - usually calm in the pocket, can read a defense and doesn't make a ton of mistakes, but also had been very iffy on his passing game beyond 20 yards.
So, all that said, if I am the coach - these are the things I do (in order of preference)
* Sign both Bradford and Keenum for about $25M-$30M a year. Figure out in the first year, which one is the guy. Let Bridgewater go in FA
* Sign either Bradford or Keenum and keep Bridgewater - similar price tag.
* Keep just Bradford and go with Sloter as the #2
* Keep just Keenum and go with Sloter as the #2
* Go get Kirk Cousins and go with Sloter as the #2
* Go get Alex Smith and go with Sloter as the #2 (at 33, Smith is a short term fix, then Sloter in 2-3 years)
* Go with Bridgewater and go with Sloter as the #2 (I don't hate Bridgewater, but I just don't know if we have the Bridgewater we had right before he got hurt, or a changed QB. He had been more of a game manager for his first 2 years, and seemed about to break through in preseason 2016, but we have almost no data points except his short 2017 debut vs Cincy)
My biggest fear is that we have our QB for the next 5 years on our roster now, and we decide to let him go and he blows-it-up somewhere else, while we keep the one who either gets injured or doesn't pan out (like Randall Cunningham in 1999, while Brad Johnson went on to great success in Washington and a Super Bowl title in Tampa)
Your last paragraph rings way too true.
I don't feel bad for Case. We have no idea what was said in person. And much of the "controversy" was media driven. As Zim said, he hadn't named Berger the starting guard for the year. He hadn't named a defensive guy for the year. Some of it was brought on by Zimmer remaining coy, but he never disparaged Case. He just wouldn't reveal his decision.
And yes, you can see Zimmer can't stand the questions by Tomasson. And it is easy to see why, they just aren't well thought out, often repeating earlier questions or asking something that has already been made clear. Obviously he doesn't think well on his feet.
As to the QB. My first blush is to go with Teddy. He has the upside. He is younger and was seemed to have that winning leadership on his side. Don't forget he won a division in his second year in the league. People will point out that he was dependent on others, but so was Case with a much better supporting cast.
Bradford has the most talent, but I don't want a short term answer. And the two questions I had about him are still unanswered. Can he stay healthy and can he win when it counts?
Case was fun to watch this year, but like that crazy girlfriend, it may be fun but might end spectacularly bad as well.
There is a good argument for and against all three. One thing that keeps scratching the back of my brain is the idea that Bradford, if he's healthy (and that's a HUGE if), can be an elite QB.
It's not going to be easy to just give up on that? And he's only 30. It's not like he's old. Kirk Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season. Sam's 8 years younger than Brees, 10 years younger than Brady.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
There is a good argument for and against all three. One thing that keeps scratching the back of my brain is the idea that Bradford, if he's healthy (and that's a HUGE if), can be an elite QB.
It's not going to be easy to just give up on that? And he's only 30. It's not like he's old. Kirk Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season. Sam's 8 years younger than Brees, 10 years younger than Brady.
That is enticing. I can't get past the bone-on-bone reports tho.
My personal take is the opposite of Tom's. I feel that there is a very high percentage chance that Case goes elsewhere and can't replicate this season ever again.
Where's he going to go where he'll have two WRs that will rank is the Top 5 in contested catches that allows Keenum to do his gunslinger thing? And how about a team that remains so dedicated to the run even though the production wasn't there to preserve the play action threat?
Where's Bradford going to go this allows his knee to magically regenerate? Look, he missed 14+ games on a hit that nobody remembers as being a bad shot to the knee. If it was that easy to damage it I have little reason to believe it will ever hold up for a full season ever again.
And unfortunately Teddy is an absolute unknown. Does he still retain his mobility? Did the steps forward he was taking erode with all that time off? Some crappy team will probably give him the chance to start but Bridgewater needs talent around him to be successful just like Case.
Too big of questions for all three considering how close this team is to the ultimate prize. That's why I'm advocating for sweeping the decks and going with Cousins or Smith.
The other concern with Bradford is his lack of mobility and our still unsettled/proven OL. He definitely has the arm talent but I've always questioned his movement skills(not running ability). I think the bad knee, inherent lack of movement, questionable OL, and age makes me leery unless the price/terms are right.
Case is kind of the safest road in house but I think we saw the best of what he can be and his cost is probably the highest. I hate to buy high.
Bridgewater will probably be the least expensive up front and probably the best long term potential if his knee is 100%. He's kind of a hybrid of Sam and Case-watching Case succeed with his aggressive attitude may have been a little enlightening and he would be playing with the best team he has ever had around him-just as Case and Sam did and had career years.
I'm inclined to go Teddy and Sloter then dependent on inside knowledge of Sloter and Teddy's ability/health decide between a vet backup or another draft pick on a QB. In 2 years MAYBE they will have Teddy playing good and the next Garropalo behind him so they can cash in and commit long term to the best of the bunch.
The defense will keep them competitive no matter who the QB is and the last option gives them the most cap flexibility going forward IMO. If Teddy were to fail they would have the money at that point to bring in a bridge QB or go with a new young QB.
My opinion is formed by a strong desire to have a long term QB and be done with a new one every 1-3 years. Good stable HC, good stable QB, good defense=long term success IMO. We have 2 of the 3.
What I saw and learned through the season and playoffs was this...the Vikings need and must have a quarterback that can consistently push the ball down the field. Keenum really can't do it. Bridgewater really can't do it. Bradford can do it but his wheels are falling off. So what can the Vikings do? Let all three walk? Use the combine salaries of the three to find a quarterback that can meet their needs? Mortgage the farm to move up in the draft to find that guy? Maybe hope for Sloter (sp) to show something in his second year. I just don't see signing any one of those three is going to be the answer.
And don't get me started on the state of the offensive line...the Vikings need two stud guards to go along with Elflein in the middle. Spielman and Zimmer will have their hands full dealing with these issues.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Too big of questions for all three considering how close this team is to the ultimate prize. That's why I'm advocating for sweeping the decks and going with Cousins or Smith.
I'm with you for Alex Smith, not Cousins: too many INTs for Zimmer, and Kirk wants to throw a lot.
But if we are truly out of our 3rd-round pick, do we want to trade our 2nd away for Smith?
Strange thing is that Bradford took plenty of hits last year, plays one lights-out game this year and doesn't really take any hits or punishment and poof! Knee goes out.
I have no idea why the tolling of Bridgewater would be such a n aweful move. The Vikings have been paying him for two seasons for sitting on the bench. Lets toll the contract and see what we have in him let him compete and then sign him to a bigger deal.
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