Quote: @Caactorvike said:
not on Case. OL sucked and so did the much vaunted D. 38 points? pathetic. They need to stop reading their stats.
Ca, I was thinking the same thing. Don't know if all the cumulative injuries caught up with them or they read all their press clippings this past week. Zim should be embarrassed.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Vikergirl said:
Seriously? That's ridiculous. It was the OL getting the credit all season long. What about them tonight? This game showed we need more help there. I don't want them not to sign Keenum.
Depends on the price. Although I wouldn't count it out I don't know if this performance convinces you to spend $23M on Case via the tag. The O-Line still needs to be improved, but what else can you get for $23M is the question?
No doubt. I am not saying to back up the brink's truck but we are so close. After what he did this year as in body of work has to be taken into consideration. I get tonight wasn't his best but there is plenty of blame to go around. I am not seeing any better options out there at qb.
Quote: @medaille said:
This isn't about who (singularly) was 100% at fault for the loss. The D sucked. The OLine sucked. The coaches sucked. Case sucked.
I think the Case we saw today, is the Case we'll see if the OLine isn't performing well and we're not completely shutting teams out and playing from behind. I'm not convinced Keenum is the long term guy for us. I'd rather roll the dice on Bridgewater at this point. I think any mediocre QB will get us to the playoffs, but we need to find a guy that is a plus QB if we want to make the next step.
No way I'd hitch my wagon to Bridgewater. I just cant see the clear rationale with all thats at stake.
Anyways, the only rent a qb I'd really get up for is Brees...Not sure Cousins is the guy you are describing much more than Case is?
Garrapolo is a URFA right? Hell, go after him if thats the case.
Quote: @Ralphie said:
Just disagree. Our O-line again could not stand tall. And our D collapsed and looked like Detroit. That's not on Case.
This, times 1000.
I've been a Bridgewater guy. I thought if they were going to make a move, it would be at Carolina. They stuck with Keenum, and it was the right call.
This loss absolutely isn't on Keenum. It's on the O-line, and the defense. Mostly the defense.
The D has been so great all year. I don't know how that could have been the way we lost -- being absolute dogsh*t on third down.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
This isn't about who (singularly) was 100% at fault for the loss. The D sucked. The OLine sucked. The coaches sucked. Case sucked.
I think the Case we saw today, is the Case we'll see if the OLine isn't performing well and we're not completely shutting teams out and playing from behind. I'm not convinced Keenum is the long term guy for us. I'd rather roll the dice on Bridgewater at this point. I think any mediocre QB will get us to the playoffs, but we need to find a guy that is a plus QB if we want to make the next step.
No way I'd hitch my wagon to Bridgewater. I just cant see the clear rationale with all thats at stake.
Anyways, the only rent a qb I'd really get up for is Brees...Not sure Cousins is the guy you are describing much more than Case is?
Garrapolo is a URFA right? Hell, go after him if thats the case.
I haven't watched a lot of Cousins, I think he'd be an upgrade from Keenum, but I'm not sure I like him enough to back up the Brinks for him. I like Garrapolo. I think he's a lot like Bridgewater in that he's shown some good things, but hasn't really put down a consistent trend of great games on tape (defenses haven't had time to adjust to him yet), so he's more potential than sure thing at this point. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Garrapolo gets tagged if they can't work out a deal before the offseason. Brees would be great, but I think he stays in NO to try and finish what they started.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I would say Case is partially to blame, but it isn't all on him. The offensive line didn't do him any favors tonight, but he missed throws too. Both Bridgewater/Bradford would have performed poorly with such little time. I do think this gives you some hesitation before you tag him for $23M though. You have the defense and skill players, do you risk it for $23M on Keenum or call all in on a more proven commodity (Brees/Cousins).
Worst situation for any of qb's was exactly what happened. To fall behind and get one dimensional. Against that D, on the road, on grass.
Brees? Hell yah, but I don't see him leaving that town or franchise. I know they've got some cap issues and players to reconcile with but the Saints (imo) have a very bright future and strong, young nucleus. Lordy I am tired of the qb questions that have plagued this franchise since Pepp went down in 05. UGH
Geoff, I'm starting to wonder if that vaunted Viking D is really schematically that good? They've looked pretty vulnerable as of late. Not sure how much of this to lay at the feet of Zimm/Edwards vs Players? Maybe it's not an either or thing...And someone will surely call me out for questioning them given the statistics they put on the board this year.
I think that is a fair question. I think you saw a little bit tonight how the Vikings D is superbly talented but really relies on good play calling. You can look back in previous threads and this has really been my gripe for 2 years now. When called correctly the Vikings play incredibly well and allow next to nothing. But when they get out of rhythm things go off the rails.
Last year I called it a "lack of swag" and I still believe that is true. Being able to play off the script is key and what makes a good defense great. Look at what killed them tonight, broken plays. At that point you need to ad lib and go with your instincts. At some point I do think you can coach the instincts out of players to religiously play the system. But, the system isn't designed for broken plays.
Zimmer is one of the best defensive coaches in the league. But giving his player the reigns to play what they see could make a massive difference moving forward.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I would say Case is partially to blame, but it isn't all on him. The offensive line didn't do him any favors tonight, but he missed throws too. Both Bridgewater/Bradford would have performed poorly with such little time. I do think this gives you some hesitation before you tag him for $23M though. You have the defense and skill players, do you risk it for $23M on Keenum or call all in on a more proven commodity (Brees/Cousins).
Worst situation for any of qb's was exactly what happened. To fall behind and get one dimensional. Against that D, on the road, on grass.
Brees? Hell yah, but I don't see him leaving that town or franchise. I know they've got some cap issues and players to reconcile with but the Saints (imo) have a very bright future and strong, young nucleus. Lordy I am tired of the qb questions that have plagued this franchise since Pepp went down in 05. UGH
Geoff, I'm starting to wonder if that vaunted Viking D is really schematically that good? They've looked pretty vulnerable as of late. Not sure how much of this to lay at the feet of Zimm/Edwards vs Players? Maybe it's not an either or thing...And someone will surely call me out for questioning them given the statistics they put on the board this year.
Zimmer is one of the best defensive coaches in the league. But giving his player the reigns to play what they see could make a massive difference moving forward.
That will end up,with plays like Williams against Diggs in NO. And the beginning ingredients of the firing of the coach.
It wasn't Zimmer who didn't contain the run. It was EG.
He is a little overrated imo. As is Hunter.
Quote: @A1Janitor said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I would say Case is partially to blame, but it isn't all on him. The offensive line didn't do him any favors tonight, but he missed throws too. Both Bridgewater/Bradford would have performed poorly with such little time. I do think this gives you some hesitation before you tag him for $23M though. You have the defense and skill players, do you risk it for $23M on Keenum or call all in on a more proven commodity (Brees/Cousins).
Worst situation for any of qb's was exactly what happened. To fall behind and get one dimensional. Against that D, on the road, on grass.
Brees? Hell yah, but I don't see him leaving that town or franchise. I know they've got some cap issues and players to reconcile with but the Saints (imo) have a very bright future and strong, young nucleus. Lordy I am tired of the qb questions that have plagued this franchise since Pepp went down in 05. UGH
Geoff, I'm starting to wonder if that vaunted Viking D is really schematically that good? They've looked pretty vulnerable as of late. Not sure how much of this to lay at the feet of Zimm/Edwards vs Players? Maybe it's not an either or thing...And someone will surely call me out for questioning them given the statistics they put on the board this year.
Zimmer is one of the best defensive coaches in the league. But giving his player the reigns to play what they see could make a massive difference moving forward.
That will end up,with plays like Williams against Diggs in NO. And the beginning ingredients of the firing of the coach.
That's an extreme example. Look at Marcus Peters in KC and what he is able to do when he plays outside the system. I am not recommending they just freestyle out there. But when you need to make a play, do it.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I would say Case is partially to blame, but it isn't all on him. The offensive line didn't do him any favors tonight, but he missed throws too. Both Bridgewater/Bradford would have performed poorly with such little time. I do think this gives you some hesitation before you tag him for $23M though. You have the defense and skill players, do you risk it for $23M on Keenum or call all in on a more proven commodity (Brees/Cousins).
I don't think anyone is paying Case 23 million in salary next year. If you're in that neighborhood, then I don't think it's even a question that you go and get Cousins. In reality, I think Keenum is in the under 20 club with incentives.
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