Case will be back if the price is reasonable. Then resign Teddy or Sam as the backup. I'm good.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ MaroonBells said:
The height of arrogance to let him leave? What the hell does that mean? Everyone is for having a contract conversation with Case Keenum. Whether we sign him or not depends on how much his agent thinks he's worth vs. how much the Vikings think he's worth. Those two things may not be as close as Seifert thinks, especially considering the fact that we have two other talented QBs who may factor into the decision.
I think the arrogance would be in the organization believing that Case is a placeholder and that any semi-competent QB could have accomplished the same results given the tools around him, and the defense keeping us in games. Pretty sure that was the consensus among a lot of people for most of his time as a starter. Zimmer didn't give him much credit with the "horseshoe up his butt" comment. I would hope that maybe even the experts could admit that they had it all wrong, and while not perfect, Case has the intangibles that make him a bonafide upper tier NFL starter. At least for now.
is he or isnt he? you hedged your comment with the "at least for now". I get it, he has question marks especially with the changes coming at OC, so when talking about the future its really hard to say he is going to be worth paying upper tier money as you say he is.
With a year like this, I think you have to give him a 3-5 year deal. Of course Brez can do his voodoo magic that protects the team if he flames out after a year or 2, but given his body of work this year, he's earned the paycheck, every bit as much as whoever else they could envision in that role. The new OC is going to be a wild card for everyone.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ Tom Moore said:
I have long said that Sam has the best arm, but untrustworthy on health. Case is like Favre (not as good yet) - ballsy gunslinger with emotion and right leadership attitude.
Teddy is one of the nicest guys ever, but so mild mannered and still uncertain on the deep throws or what condition he is really in after a major, major knee rebuild.
I'd go Case, and sign Sam too. Lock-up $30M+ in the QB position over the next 2 years. We have the cap space and then you hedge your bet of a mistake and risk Bridgewater becoming a star. If you do that, and it fails, Viking fans will realize you made the safest bet you could.
Tom, any insight into Bridgewater's mind? I was a little taken back that he wasn't in the locker room for very long at all after the game Sunday. Maybe he just doesn't want to be a distraction, or is he starting to distance himself from the team a little more, especially after Sam was named the backup on Sunday? Did you get any sense either way from him or the team on Sunday?
Not much. The team is very protective of their starting QB, but they are protective of all 3 here, because all 3 are starting QBs. Teddy talks to teammates, and largely avoids the press. He was seen smiling on the sidelines after the win, and he worked out in shorts with the team 90 minutes before the Saint game. I'd think he is very disappointed, but not in Case. He is probably more disappointed that Sam has surpassed him. But, the reality is, Sam has had way more reps with this team than Teddy has, and in a pinch, Sam makes more sense as a backup.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ Tom Moore said:
I have long said that Sam has the best arm, but untrustworthy on health. Case is like Favre (not as good yet) - ballsy gunslinger with emotion and right leadership attitude.
Teddy is one of the nicest guys ever, but so mild mannered and still uncertain on the deep throws or what condition he is really in after a major, major knee rebuild.
I'd go Case, and sign Sam too. Lock-up $30M+ in the QB position over the next 2 years. We have the cap space and then you hedge your bet of a mistake and risk Bridgewater becoming a star. If you do that, and it fails, Viking fans will realize you made the safest bet you could.
Tom, any insight into Bridgewater's mind? I was a little taken back that he wasn't in the locker room for very long at all after the game Sunday. Maybe he just doesn't want to be a distraction, or is he starting to distance himself from the team a little more, especially after Sam was named the backup on Sunday? Did you get any sense either way from him or the team on Sunday?
Initial appearances tell me that is a huge 360 for the kid. That not being dressed for the divisional round was a big deal.
Then again, he may just not want to be a distraction for Case.
We'll see...
He's no distraction. He was great in Washington when he was activated for the first time, He would not interview, because he did not play, but he talked to many of us and was very happy. Likely, he wanted to start soon after he was activated, but Case would not let the job go. The shock was Sam supplanting him. But, Sam is simply better right now.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ Tom Moore said:
I have long said that Sam has the best arm, but untrustworthy on health. Case is like Favre (not as good yet) - ballsy gunslinger with emotion and right leadership attitude.
Teddy is one of the nicest guys ever, but so mild mannered and still uncertain on the deep throws or what condition he is really in after a major, major knee rebuild.
I'd go Case, and sign Sam too. Lock-up $30M+ in the QB position over the next 2 years. We have the cap space and then you hedge your bet of a mistake and risk Bridgewater becoming a star. If you do that, and it fails, Viking fans will realize you made the safest bet you could.
Tom, any insight into Bridgewater's mind? I was a little taken back that he wasn't in the locker room for very long at all after the game Sunday. Maybe he just doesn't want to be a distraction, or is he starting to distance himself from the team a little more, especially after Sam was named the backup on Sunday? Did you get any sense either way from him or the team on Sunday?
Do you honestly think either would go into an open compitition training camp when they both would be day 1 starters on other teams?
If they sign 2 QBs, then 1 will be named the stater, and the other will "have a chance to compete". They should not have a QB bake-off. If they do, 2 guys won't sign here.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ MaroonBells said:
The height of arrogance to let him leave? What the hell does that mean? Everyone is for having a contract conversation with Case Keenum. Whether we sign him or not depends on how much his agent thinks he's worth vs. how much the Vikings think he's worth. Those two things may not be as close as Seifert thinks, especially considering the fact that we have two other talented QBs who may factor into the decision.
I think the arrogance would be in the organization believing that Case is a placeholder and that any semi-competent QB could have accomplished the same results given the tools around him, and the defense keeping us in games. Pretty sure that was the consensus among a lot of people for most of his time as a starter. Zimmer didn't give him much credit with the "horseshoe up his butt" comment. I would hope that maybe even the experts could admit that they had it all wrong, and while not perfect, Case has the intangibles that make him a bonafide upper tier NFL starter. At least for now.
is he or isnt he? you hedged your comment with the "at least for now". I get it, he has question marks especially with the changes coming at OC, so when talking about the future its really hard to say he is going to be worth paying upper tier money as you say he is.
With a year like this, I think you have to give him a 3-5 year deal. Of course Brez can do his voodoo magic that protects the team if he flames out after a year or 2, but given his body of work this year, he's earned the paycheck, every bit as much as whoever else they could envision in that role. The new OC is going to be a wild card for everyone.
well we can offer a lifetime deal, but when you talk about contract voodoo, you get it.
what would you offer case in guaranteed money and for how long? its real easy for fans to talk about terms and dollars if they want to ignore real cap implications. My question to anybody that says we "have" to resign him or he has "earned" a new deal... how much are they willing to spend to make sure Case is the QB next year... or 2 or 3 or.....? I think it will take 21-24 million for 3 years with about 1.5 to 2 years of that guaranteed or somebody else will lure him away with more guarantees. I will concede that he has earned a nice payday.... but will his 1 year of success be worth what the market will try and offer?
For me, if the team doctors feel comfortable with their
knees, I’m comfortable with all 3 QBs going into next year. If one guy demands $25M and the other will
take $10-15M, I would have no problems going with the cheaper option for 2018. I think we’re the most complete team in the league,
roster-wise. We shouldn’t have too much
turnover next year. The biggest concern
I have is that our offense will regress with lesser quality play calling like
the Falcons did this year.
@ JimmyinSD said: Quote:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ MaroonBells said:
The height of arrogance to let him leave? What the hell does that mean? Everyone is for having a contract conversation with Case Keenum. Whether we sign him or not depends on how much his agent thinks he's worth vs. how much the Vikings think he's worth. Those two things may not be as close as Seifert thinks, especially considering the fact that we have two other talented QBs who may factor into the decision.
I think the arrogance would be in the organization believing that Case is a placeholder and that any semi-competent QB could have accomplished the same results given the tools around him, and the defense keeping us in games. Pretty sure that was the consensus among a lot of people for most of his time as a starter. Zimmer didn't give him much credit with the "horseshoe up his butt" comment. I would hope that maybe even the experts could admit that they had it all wrong, and while not perfect, Case has the intangibles that make him a bonafide upper tier NFL starter. At least for now.
is he or isnt he? you hedged your comment with the "at least for now". I get it, he has question marks especially with the changes coming at OC, so when talking about the future its really hard to say he is going to be worth paying upper tier money as you say he is.
With a year like this, I think you have to give him a 3-5 year deal. Of course Brez can do his voodoo magic that protects the team if he flames out after a year or 2, but given his body of work this year, he's earned the paycheck, every bit as much as whoever else they could envision in that role. The new OC is going to be a wild card for everyone.
well we can offer a lifetime deal, but when you talk about contract voodoo, you get it.
what would you offer case in guaranteed money and for how long? its real easy for fans to talk about terms and dollars if they want to ignore real cap implications. My question to anybody that says we "have" to resign him or he has "earned" a new deal... how much are they willing to spend to make sure Case is the QB next year... or 2 or 3 or.....? I think it will take 21-24 million for 3 years with about 1.5 to 2 years of that guaranteed or somebody else will lure him away with more guarantees. I will concede that he has earned a nice payday.... but will his 1 year of success be worth what the market will try and offer?
I honestly don't know the numbers game. I think I heard Cousins is going to be in the 25 million range, but obviously has a much larger body of work to negotiate that price than Case. Then there is the whole guaranteed money aspect which gets very complicated depending on wording and schedule. This is probably a different deal altogether since the team may include attainable incentives and escalators, that with a substantially lower salary and more guarantees (or vice versa) could make it attractive to both parties to stay.
Quote: @medaille said:
For me, if the team doctors feel comfortable with their
knees, I’m comfortable with all 3 QBs going into next year. If one guy demands $25M and the other will
take $10-15M, I would have no problems going with the cheaper option for 2018. I think we’re the most complete team in the league,
roster-wise. We shouldn’t have too much
turnover next year. The biggest concern
I have is that our offense will regress with lesser quality play calling like
the Falcons did this year.
one thing I dont want to see come of this is over spend on a middle of the road QB, yes they are important, but this offense doesnt need a world beater at QB, just a solid player that doesnt make a lot of mistakes (basically like Case has done this year) the quickest way to ruin a good roster is to pay a QB the ridiculous money that some end up getting. there is a reason that detroit never seems to get ahead, they overpay their stars. New Orleans could be crippled if Brees goes his usual route and takes as much as he can get or walks. Brady is not stupid, he knows that he will make more in endorsements and other shit if the team keeps winning super bowls so he plays for less... I would think that would be a lesson to the rest of the QBs that want what hes got..... but alas Aaron just wants to get paid.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ MaroonBells said:
The height of arrogance to let him leave? What the hell does that mean? Everyone is for having a contract conversation with Case Keenum. Whether we sign him or not depends on how much his agent thinks he's worth vs. how much the Vikings think he's worth. Those two things may not be as close as Seifert thinks, especially considering the fact that we have two other talented QBs who may factor into the decision.
I think the arrogance would be in the organization believing that Case is a placeholder and that any semi-competent QB could have accomplished the same results given the tools around him, and the defense keeping us in games. Pretty sure that was the consensus among a lot of people for most of his time as a starter. Zimmer didn't give him much credit with the "horseshoe up his butt" comment. I would hope that maybe even the experts could admit that they had it all wrong, and while not perfect, Case has the intangibles that make him a bonafide upper tier NFL starter. At least for now.
is he or isnt he? you hedged your comment with the "at least for now". I get it, he has question marks especially with the changes coming at OC, so when talking about the future its really hard to say he is going to be worth paying upper tier money as you say he is.
With a year like this, I think you have to give him a 3-5 year deal. Of course Brez can do his voodoo magic that protects the team if he flames out after a year or 2, but given his body of work this year, he's earned the paycheck, every bit as much as whoever else they could envision in that role. The new OC is going to be a wild card for everyone.
well we can offer a lifetime deal, but when you talk about contract voodoo, you get it.
what would you offer case in guaranteed money and for how long? its real easy for fans to talk about terms and dollars if they want to ignore real cap implications. My question to anybody that says we "have" to resign him or he has "earned" a new deal... how much are they willing to spend to make sure Case is the QB next year... or 2 or 3 or.....? I think it will take 21-24 million for 3 years with about 1.5 to 2 years of that guaranteed or somebody else will lure him away with more guarantees. I will concede that he has earned a nice payday.... but will his 1 year of success be worth what the market will try and offer?
I honestly don't know the numbers game. I think I heard Cousins is going to be in the 25 million range, but obviously has a much larger body of work to negotiate that price than Case. Then there is the whole guaranteed money aspect which gets very complicated depending on wording and schedule. This is probably a different deal altogether since the team may include attainable incentives and escalators, that with a substantially lower salary and more guarantees (or vice versa) could make it attractive to both parties to stay.
i like and have suggested a heavily incentive laden contract myself, but i suspect that at 30 years old if somebody comes along offering much more in guaranteed money that will win the day. I thought 15-18 with another 5-7 in incentives, and then offer Sam and/or Teddy a secondary contract of around 5-7 million, with similar 5-7 in incentives if they were to win the starting job. Trying to cap our total QB outlay in the mid to upper 20s and give both players an out after 1 year. Basically lets kick the can down the road 1 more year and hope that the picture is much clearer, if nothing else by then Sloter or another younger QB might be ready to challenge as well at a much lower salary.
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