Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FSUVike said:
Last time i looked, which was two weeks ago, both Adam and Diggs are ranked in the Top 5 for Contested Catches.
If Bradford played the whole season I can guarantee you neither Receiver would be in the Top 10.
Both get wide spanking open and then have t make a contested catch because Case doesn't have the arm talent to hit them on a rope to all parts of the field.
This is something that has to be considered. Keenum enables the OC to call certain plays because of his innate mobility and pocket presence. And his arm strength prevents the OC from calling certain plays as well.
Shurmer makes it work. Can whomever replaces him also do that? Or will Pat's successor want someone with a livelier arm?
So we used to have people complain on this board that we didn't have WRers that would go and fight for the ball. Now we have two in the top 5 for contested catches and its the QB's fault?
You want wide receivers who can win contested balls. You want a QB who doesn't throw them. I'm not sure why you sound so incredulous. Even Mike Zimmer said that Case has a horseshoe. What do you think that means? Would he say that about Sam or Teddy? Of course not. The notion that Keenum is a QB with below average arm talent being aided by a tremendous supporting cast is not an opinion restricted to a few people on this board. I would say it's actually the majority opinion.
Its because its not a fair measuring stick. Go ahead, pull up the top 10 WRers in contested catches. Is anyone bitching about those QBs? Nope. And we know you aren't a Keenum fan, MB.
Like I said, I'm not trying to blow any smoke up anyone's rear end on Keenum. He was a journeyman before he got here. But he's having an amazing year, one in which there doesn't need to be any asterisks or 'horseshoes'. His arm is very average. And I love me some Zimmer, but the ol' ball coach doesn't know offense. All of these 'almost' INTs that Keenum HASN'T thrown means what exactly? Teddy had plenty of those. Its part of the game.
Here's what I'm starting to think and I say this liking Teddy: careful what you wish for. Because he might be the guy in 2018 and he might stink. And we'll be looking back at the gift horse in the mouth they let get away. I don't know what the right answer is, I really don't. Which QB to hitch your wagon to? But all this low level back biting on Keenum and the season he is having is pure goofiness.
It has nothing to do with being a "FAN" of one QB or another. Look, if you don't see Keenum's flaws, fine. But it reminds me of what I saw on another board. Arif Hasan recently broke down some of the flaws in Case Keenum's game and the post containing this piece was titled "Arif Hasan Still Hates Case Keenum with a Passion." I laughed out loud at that one. As if the opinion that Keenum is flawed is so wildly crazy that HATE or BIAS can be the only explanation for it. It's pretty nuts. But make no mistake, we're all rooting for Case Keenum to continue winning.
This is a dilemma that is starting to feel almost as bad as not having any decent QB on the roster. Picking the right guy is scary for us fans. Who IS the right guy???
If Sam Bradford was even half as mobile as Keenum or pre-injury Teddy (and wasn't having knee issues himself) this wouldn't be a discussion, and I can fully admit that being the Teddy homer I am. Regardless, we have to find the right guy. Is the right guy currently on our roster? Rick and Zim more than likely have a pretty good idea already if he is.
FWIW, I think Sloter is a dark horse for this team. Things are very, very quiet where he's concerned. My Vikings radar tells me that he's in the future plans in some form or fashion.
It's hard to talk about the QB without knowing what Coordinator's system he'll be asked to run, or who else will be on the team. But let's say it will be something like what we've run -- more West Coast than Air Coryell. Here's what I've got.
1. Sign Teddy. Just do it. He's the leader of this team, and we all know it. 
2. Pat Shurmur becomes Head Coach of the Arizona Cardinals, and signs Case Keenum to a three year, $54 million deal. Then we trade Jarius Wright for Larry Fitzgerald, straight-up. They get a polished, inexpensive, prime-of-career WR that already knows Keenum and knows Shurmur's system. Our Minnesota boy comes home for a second Super Bowl run. With a some good PR work on both sides of the deal, everyone is happy.
3. We let McKinnon go in FA and sign Frank Gore for one season as a back-up to Cook.
4. I'd let Floyd go and run with five WRs and four TEs. Draft another Morgan to play TE, so we can have four on the roster (and at least two who can block).
WRs: Diggs, Thielen, Fitzgerald, Treadwell, Coley.
RBs: Cook, Gore, Murray, Ham.
TEs: Rudolph (for now), Morgan, Rookie, Bell or Carter.
OL: Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Remmers, Hill. Isidora, Collins, Sirles. (I might use a high pick here for depth/challenge for a spot).
QBs: Teddy, Sloter, Veteran
Comp picks in 2019: -Keenum -Bradford -Floyd -McKinnon. +Gore +vet QB. That's gotta get us two third-rounders, right?
Hey, a guy can dream, right?
(Is it a week from Sunday yet?!?!?)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FSUVike said:
Last time i looked, which was two weeks ago, both Adam and Diggs are ranked in the Top 5 for Contested Catches.
If Bradford played the whole season I can guarantee you neither Receiver would be in the Top 10.
Both get wide spanking open and then have t make a contested catch because Case doesn't have the arm talent to hit them on a rope to all parts of the field.
This is something that has to be considered. Keenum enables the OC to call certain plays because of his innate mobility and pocket presence. And his arm strength prevents the OC from calling certain plays as well.
Shurmer makes it work. Can whomever replaces him also do that? Or will Pat's successor want someone with a livelier arm?
So we used to have people complain on this board that we didn't have WRers that would go and fight for the ball. Now we have two in the top 5 for contested catches and its the QB's fault?
You want wide receivers who can win contested balls. You want a QB who doesn't throw them. I'm not sure why you sound so incredulous. Even Mike Zimmer said that Case has a horseshoe. What do you think that means? Would he say that about Sam or Teddy? Of course not. The notion that Keenum is a QB with below average arm talent being aided by a tremendous supporting cast is not an opinion restricted to a few people on this board. I would say it's actually the majority opinion.
Its because its not a fair measuring stick. Go ahead, pull up the top 10 WRers in contested catches. Is anyone bitching about those QBs? Nope. And we know you aren't a Keenum fan, MB.
Like I said, I'm not trying to blow any smoke up anyone's rear end on Keenum. He was a journeyman before he got here. But he's having an amazing year, one in which there doesn't need to be any asterisks or 'horseshoes'. His arm is very average. And I love me some Zimmer, but the ol' ball coach doesn't know offense. All of these 'almost' INTs that Keenum HASN'T thrown means what exactly? Teddy had plenty of those. Its part of the game.
Here's what I'm starting to think and I say this liking Teddy: careful what you wish for. Because he might be the guy in 2018 and he might stink. And we'll be looking back at the gift horse in the mouth they let get away. I don't know what the right answer is, I really don't. Which QB to hitch your wagon to? But all this low level back biting on Keenum and the season he is having is pure goofiness.
It has nothing to do with being a "FAN" of one QB or another. Look, if you don't see Keenum's flaws, fine. But it reminds me of what I saw on another board. Arif Hasan recently broke down some of the flaws in Case Keenum's game and the post containing this piece was titled "Arif Hasan Still Hates Case Keenum with a Passion." I laughed out loud at that one. As if the opinion that Keenum is flawed is so wildly crazy that HATE or BIAS can be the only explanation for it. It's pretty nuts. But make no mistake, we're all rooting for Case Keenum to continue winning.
LOL, Arif Hasan. Please.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
durability has to be considered in the discussion, and as much as i love Teddy, that has always been my concern with him, even before the non contact injury he sustained. from what damage was described, its amazing hes walking, and he owes that to Sugarman and quick response of Vike trainers. i cant imagine he has the same mobilityto extend plays like he once did. strike one.
Bradfords two ACLs, are gong to limit his mobility / durability IMO...a great arm doesnt mean much if the knees / legs are gone. if his knees were bothering him this year WITHOUT contact....makes ya wonder what would happen when hes thrown into the firefight.
strike two.
I watched Case last year with the Rams (we get their games here on the WC) and he was arguably the better quarterback between him and Goff. his WRs didnt help him much...seemed like they dropped passes all the time last year. His O line also last year with Rams left a lot to be desired. hes mobile, accurate, and seems like the game has slowed for him. each week its like we are waiting for that game that will put him behind TB, but ot hasnt come. its like we expect him to falter...then we can all say..”yup..shoulda started Teddy, or Sam”. QBs can have bad games / seasons, but little patience in the NFL.
Sloter also is more than capable IMO, and has a bright future ahead of him. no reason to think he wouldnt be a capable backup.
just my opinion...im wrong about so much though...trust in Zim & FO.
I don't get the Teddy durability comments beyond the knee injury. Some said he had skinny legs coming out of college. That's the only knock which is a BS knock IMO.
Look at these 3 guys next to each other now and Teddy looks bigger than the other two.
Keenum had an ACL in college too dont' forget.
Sam is by far the biggest health issue and I doubt he will be around in the NFL very long.
Good discussion thread...Obviously the Vikings are letting this narrative play-out as long as they can and I don't blame them.
We were hoping for clarity along time ago and it hasn't happened. Probably wont happen. They are going to have to make an artistic call.
Too bad you cant take some of all 3 and make one really good qb. The biggest shame is Bradford not being able to stay healthy, he's probably the closest to elite of the bunch when he is.
Quote: @twgerber said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
durability has to be considered in the discussion, and as much as i love Teddy, that has always been my concern with him, even before the non contact injury he sustained. from what damage was described, its amazing hes walking, and he owes that to Sugarman and quick response of Vike trainers. i cant imagine he has the same mobilityto extend plays like he once did. strike one.
Bradfords two ACLs, are gong to limit his mobility / durability IMO...a great arm doesnt mean much if the knees / legs are gone. if his knees were bothering him this year WITHOUT contact....makes ya wonder what would happen when hes thrown into the firefight.
strike two.
I watched Case last year with the Rams (we get their games here on the WC) and he was arguably the better quarterback between him and Goff. his WRs didnt help him much...seemed like they dropped passes all the time last year. His O line also last year with Rams left a lot to be desired. hes mobile, accurate, and seems like the game has slowed for him. each week its like we are waiting for that game that will put him behind TB, but ot hasnt come. its like we expect him to falter...then we can all say..”yup..shoulda started Teddy, or Sam”. QBs can have bad games / seasons, but little patience in the NFL.
Sloter also is more than capable IMO, and has a bright future ahead of him. no reason to think he wouldnt be a capable backup.
just my opinion...im wrong about so much though...trust in Zim & FO.
I don't get the Teddy durability comments beyond the knee injury. Some said he had skinny legs coming out of college. That's the only knock which is a BS knock IMO.
Look at these 3 guys next to each other now and Teddy looks bigger than the other two.
Keenum had an ACL in college too dont' forget.
Sam is by far the biggest health issue and I doubt he will be around in the NFL very long.
I didnt know Case had a repaired ACL in college.
For me the worry about Teddy’s durability is that his knee feel apart doing a non contact drill. How the heck does that happen to anyone much less a NFL athlete? Thats freaky as hell!
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ twgerber said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
durability has to be considered in the discussion, and as much as i love Teddy, that has always been my concern with him, even before the non contact injury he sustained. from what damage was described, its amazing hes walking, and he owes that to Sugarman and quick response of Vike trainers. i cant imagine he has the same mobilityto extend plays like he once did. strike one.
Bradfords two ACLs, are gong to limit his mobility / durability IMO...a great arm doesnt mean much if the knees / legs are gone. if his knees were bothering him this year WITHOUT contact....makes ya wonder what would happen when hes thrown into the firefight.
strike two.
I watched Case last year with the Rams (we get their games here on the WC) and he was arguably the better quarterback between him and Goff. his WRs didnt help him much...seemed like they dropped passes all the time last year. His O line also last year with Rams left a lot to be desired. hes mobile, accurate, and seems like the game has slowed for him. each week its like we are waiting for that game that will put him behind TB, but ot hasnt come. its like we expect him to falter...then we can all say..”yup..shoulda started Teddy, or Sam”. QBs can have bad games / seasons, but little patience in the NFL.
Sloter also is more than capable IMO, and has a bright future ahead of him. no reason to think he wouldnt be a capable backup.
just my opinion...im wrong about so much though...trust in Zim & FO.
I don't get the Teddy durability comments beyond the knee injury. Some said he had skinny legs coming out of college. That's the only knock which is a BS knock IMO.
Look at these 3 guys next to each other now and Teddy looks bigger than the other two.
Keenum had an ACL in college too dont' forget.
Sam is by far the biggest health issue and I doubt he will be around in the NFL very long.
I didnt know Case had a repaired ACL in college.
For me the worry about Teddy’s durability is that his knee feel apart doing a non contact drill. How the heck does that happen to anyone much less a NFL athlete? Thats freaky as hell!
It is freaky. I think it should be clear he probably had an undiagnosed ACL tear or something like that. Fluky means less likely to happen again IMO.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FSUVike said:
Last time i looked, which was two weeks ago, both Adam and Diggs are ranked in the Top 5 for Contested Catches.
If Bradford played the whole season I can guarantee you neither Receiver would be in the Top 10.
Both get wide spanking open and then have t make a contested catch because Case doesn't have the arm talent to hit them on a rope to all parts of the field.
This is something that has to be considered. Keenum enables the OC to call certain plays because of his innate mobility and pocket presence. And his arm strength prevents the OC from calling certain plays as well.
Shurmer makes it work. Can whomever replaces him also do that? Or will Pat's successor want someone with a livelier arm?
So we used to have people complain on this board that we didn't have WRers that would go and fight for the ball. Now we have two in the top 5 for contested catches and its the QB's fault?
You want wide receivers who can win contested balls. You want a QB who doesn't throw them. I'm not sure why you sound so incredulous. Even Mike Zimmer said that Case has a horseshoe. What do you think that means? Would he say that about Sam or Teddy? Of course not. The notion that Keenum is a QB with below average arm talent being aided by a tremendous supporting cast is not an opinion restricted to a few people on this board. I would say it's actually the majority opinion.
Its because its not a fair measuring stick. Go ahead, pull up the top 10 WRers in contested catches. Is anyone bitching about those QBs? Nope. And we know you aren't a Keenum fan, MB.
Like I said, I'm not trying to blow any smoke up anyone's rear end on Keenum. He was a journeyman before he got here. But he's having an amazing year, one in which there doesn't need to be any asterisks or 'horseshoes'. His arm is very average. And I love me some Zimmer, but the ol' ball coach doesn't know offense. All of these 'almost' INTs that Keenum HASN'T thrown means what exactly? Teddy had plenty of those. Its part of the game.
Here's what I'm starting to think and I say this liking Teddy: careful what you wish for. Because he might be the guy in 2018 and he might stink. And we'll be looking back at the gift horse in the mouth they let get away. I don't know what the right answer is, I really don't. Which QB to hitch your wagon to? But all this low level back biting on Keenum and the season he is having is pure goofiness.
What's more likely? That Case is another rare Kurt Warner type? Or that he's a Ryan Fitzpatrick type?
History proves that for every Warner you get dozens of guys who look Franchise fir one season and never can duplicate that feat again.
If I'm betting on a guy to stay at that level in personally need to see an arm that can make all the throws and a brain that can process quickly and go through progressions fast. Those aren't Keenum"s strengths.
I can't argue with anything you say here. Other than Keenum is having a special season that is including not only a bunch of great metrics, but WINS too. Is this season lightning in a bottle for Keenum? Sure, it could be. In fact, its probably what most observers think, quite honestly. I guess what matters is what the Minnesota organization thinks...and whomever they choose will involve some sort of risk factor. My point is take the asterisk off this particular 2017 season. Luck has nothing to do with it. If you're asking is it sustainable? Good question.
But as they say in the financial world, 'past indicators are no barometer for future success'....but in this vein, Keenum's past before Minnesota may not indicate he can't sustain his excellent play moving forward.
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