Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I *think* we need to treat Case as the starter... with the caveat that he could be beaten out by Teddy... and sign both of them. Whoever doesn't win the starting job will become trade bait (at some point in the future). Sloter is our "long-term" #2.
I wish that were possible. Who knows, maybe we can find a way to do it, but unless he turns back into a pumpkin--and that does not seem likely at this point--Keenum is now likely to command a starter's salary, as will Bridgewater. What a happy mess. I just hope to God we make the right decision. But I fear another '98, where we committed to our Cinderella, who quickly turned back into a pumpkin and traded our starter, who went on to win a Super Bowl. This team CANNOT make that mistake again. One thing that gives me hope is that I think we have smarter people in charge now.
Edit: And, yes, I'm aware that Teddy, with his knee, could also be the pumpkin.
I'm skeptical that Teddy will get "starters" money. No one (except the Vikings) have seen him do anything since the injury. Sure, teams can bring him in and check him out... but, even before his injury, there was more hope for what he could be... than what he actually showed. At the time of his injury, he was becoming a great "game manager"; he had not shown the ability to take the team on his back and win games for us (single-handedly), like you'd like to see in a starting QB. Some team... that has everything else in place, except a competent QB, may throw some money at him. But I don't see any team breaking the bank for Teddy- because he hasn't (yet) shown to be the kind of QB who can win games for you (by himself); but he won't lose them. How many teams are looking for a QB like that in free agency? Not many (I don't think... at least not as potential starters)
Look at Cousins in Washington: that guy has been pretty darn good... and there's still questions about him. I think he'd get alot more money than Teddy. That's why I think we can sign them both.
I think Case's success is scheme and coach specific. With all of the potential Head Coaching openings this offseason, we need to prepare ourselves that Shurmur will be gone. I think plenty of teams will look at his stint with Cleveland and give him a pass. He wasn't great, but had far more success than Hue Jackson and the other Scrubs they've had. His success with Keenum and what he's done with this offense after a full offseason of implementing his system will get him another HC gig in 2018. How does that change your thinking going into the offseason? I could easily see Case following Shurmur to his new Team to be his starting QB. If that happens, you need to draft a QB and sign Teddy. I'm also afraid that the Vikings emotional attachment to Teddy will also sway their decision in who they sign, and who they let walk.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I *think* we need to treat Case as the starter... with the caveat that he could be beaten out by Teddy... and sign both of them. Whoever doesn't win the starting job will become trade bait (at some point in the future). Sloter is our "long-term" #2.
I wish that were possible. Who knows, maybe we can find a way to do it, but unless he turns back into a pumpkin--and that does not seem likely at this point--Keenum is now likely to command a starter's salary, as will Bridgewater. What a happy mess. I just hope to God we make the right decision. But I fear another '98, where we committed to our Cinderella, who quickly turned back into a pumpkin and traded our starter, who went on to win a Super Bowl. This team CANNOT make that mistake again. One thing that gives me hope is that I think we have smarter people in charge now.
Edit: And, yes, I'm aware that Teddy, with his knee, could also be the pumpkin.
I'm skeptical that Teddy will get "starters" money. No one (except the Vikings) have seen him do anything since the injury. Sure, teams can bring him in and check him out... but, even before his injury, there was more hope for what he could be... than what he actually showed. At the time of his injury, he was becoming a great "game manager"; he had not shown the ability to take the team on his back and win games for us (single-handedly), like you'd like to see in a starting QB. Some team... that has everything else in place, except a competent QB, may throw some money at him. But I don't see any team breaking the bank for Teddy- because he hasn't (yet) shown to be the kind of QB who can win games for you (by himself); but he won't lose them. How many teams are looking for a QB like that in free agency? Not many (I don't think... at least not as potential starters)
Look at Cousins in Washington: that guy has been pretty darn good... and there's still questions about him. I think he'd get alot more money than Teddy. That's why I think we can sign them both.
How much is too much though? I don't think Case will "break the bank", but he's not going to sign for 7 or 8 mil/year either. Glennon signed a 15 mil/year contract, and I think Case will at least get that. I could see Teddy getting that too.
Teddy is an unknown, and he might be great. If Case plays good enough to win games, does it matter if Teddy does well too somewhere else? Having 25 or 30 mil/year tied up in 2 QBs seems like dead money to me.
Pick the one you trust and don't look back. Case is a very good QB, and he's not afraid to go head to head against anyone. It'd be a waste to have a backup getting more than 5 mil/year, IMO.
Quote: @Purplewhizz said:
@ MaroonBells said:
I don't think Sam even plays a role in this story, except as perhaps a cautionary tale for the team's approach to Teddy Bridgewater.
As I've said before, in my mind, Thanksgiving saw Case Keenum's narrative turn a corner from "rental QB playing well in a very good offense" to "improving QB who might just be better than anyone thought." Thanksgiving indeed. While it's hard to believe anyone could be playing better than Case right now, I still believe that Teddy, too, would be lighting it up if he were playing, as would Sam.
So, who do we give our money to? With Teddy's knee a question mark, Bradford's knee a caution flag draped over it, and Keenum seemingly improving with each game, I think it's now a legitimate question. Obviously, It would be foolish to do anything money related now, but it's going to be an interesting off season. I'm betting Mike and Rick are merrily flummoxed. That is to say they're giddy at the results, but have absolutely no clue about what they're going to do, other than just watch it play out like the rest of us.
I question whether Teddy would be able to make this offensive line look as good as Keenum has. Keenum's ability to move around and escape has been one of his biggest strengths. Bradford did well in the first game because he can get rid of the ball quickly and accurately. I actually think Teddy may struggle the most of the three, as his decision making may be slower due to rust and his escapability may not be what it was prior to injury.
I'll grant you the unknown when it comes to Teddy's mobility and how the injury might impact that. But I've heard some question whether he was even as elusive as Keenum before the injury, which I find incomprehensible. IMO, Teddy was far more slippery in the pocket than Keenum and a much better runner outside of it.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
I *think* we need to treat Case as the starter... with the caveat that he could be beaten out by Teddy... and sign both of them. Whoever doesn't win the starting job will become trade bait (at some point in the future). Sloter is our "long-term" #2.
I wish that were possible. Who knows, maybe we can find a way to do it, but unless he turns back into a pumpkin--and that does not seem likely at this point--Keenum is now likely to command a starter's salary, as will Bridgewater. What a happy mess. I just hope to God we make the right decision. But I fear another '98, where we committed to our Cinderella, who quickly turned back into a pumpkin and traded our starter, who went on to win a Super Bowl. This team CANNOT make that mistake again. One thing that gives me hope is that I think we have smarter people in charge now.
Edit: And, yes, I'm aware that Teddy, with his knee, could also be the pumpkin.
I'm skeptical that Teddy will get "starters" money. No one (except the Vikings) have seen him do anything since the injury. Sure, teams can bring him in and check him out... but, even before his injury, there was more hope for what he could be... than what he actually showed. At the time of his injury, he was becoming a great "game manager"; he had not shown the ability to take the team on his back and win games for us (single-handedly), like you'd like to see in a starting QB. Some team... that has everything else in place, except a competent QB, may throw some money at him. But I don't see any team breaking the bank for Teddy- because he hasn't (yet) shown to be the kind of QB who can win games for you (by himself); but he won't lose them. How many teams are looking for a QB like that in free agency? Not many (I don't think... at least not as potential starters)
Look at Cousins in Washington: that guy has been pretty darn good... and there's still questions about him. I think he'd get alot more money than Teddy. That's why I think we can sign them both.
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong. As we've seen, QBs don't get paid for what they've done; they get paid for what they're expected to do in the future. And at 25-years-old, with 91 team records and 2 NFL records, the upside with Teddy will be tantalizing for a lot of QB-hungry teams, who every year seem eager to throw ridiculous money at players like Mike Glennon and Brock Osweiler in hopes they can be coached into quality QBs. With Teddy, that's much less of a question.
He won't get Carr money because of the uncertainty surrounding his knee, but considering how young he is, and how highly he's thought of in NFL circles, I would expect Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Tannehill type money, which is $15 and $20 million per, respectively. I think the knee's impact will be seen more in the term than the amount.
We have a lot of football to go yet before anyone has to make decisions. Too many possibles from one and done to winning it all. We dont even know who else will be on the open market. (Rodgers?)
But I agree with Pumpf, Teddy would only command starter money in Minnesota. I think he tests the open market, signs with Minnesota for more than the minimum plus incentives and a chance to compete for starter.
I think Sam plays somewhere for a decent price. He showed some success here. If he can pass a a physical someone will pay him. Plenty of teams would be glad to have him holding a clipboard. Chicago?
Maybe this article in the Pioneer Press was delusional, but a "so-called" Cap Expert suggested Keenum could earn a 3-yr contract worth $15-18 mm / year, and Bridgewater could be signed for around $7 mm. That would be a very friendly commitment to the QB position, from a cap perspective.
“A lot will depend on how the year ends, but based on how he’s doing right now, if I had to put an estimate on it, I would say he probably is going to get a contract worth about $15 million a year, like three years, $45 million,” said Jason Fitzgerald, who runs the web site OvertheCap.com.
Fitzgerald based his projection in part on the three-year, $45 million free-agent contract that Mike Glennon got from the Chicago Bears last spring. That deal turned out to be a mistake; Glennon lost his job Mitchell Trubisky after four games. But it showed how teams value quarterbacks in a league without a lot of great ones.
Fitzgerald said if Keenum were to lead Minnesota on an extended playoff run, his market value could rise to as much as $18 million annually. He does not see a scenario, though, in which Keenum could command the franchise tag from the Vikings, which would be more than $20 million a year.
Fitzgerald said it would be helpful in evaluating Bridgewater if he gets playing time this season. Regardless, he sees a scenario in which Bridgewater returns on a short-term deal for between $6 million and $7 million a year plus incentives.
http://www.twincities.com/2017/11/25/sal...ree-agent/
A good article Tom, thanks.
Its going to just get more interesting
I have a huge Viking fan nephew that lives in the Denver area, and says their sports talk radio discusses new QBs for the Broncos all the time. Two names that are mentioned quite often are Case and Teddy. Denver would love to have either, and I'm sure there are other teams that could drive up the price too.
I'd be surprised to see both Teddy and Case as Vikings next season. Could happen though.
I think Case is a better 'scrambler/runner' but pre injury Teddy was better moving in the pocket. Teddy had a better sense on how to side step or slide in the pocket while Case is a little more likely to bail and just go Fran Tarkington when he feels pressure.
There was a video a few days ago praising Case's pocket movement and he kind of rolled left in the video(which was praised) but the reality is a small slide up in the pocket could have been better because there was still a sound pocket, Case uncovered left and the DE came off of Rieff to chase. A step forward would have kept all the OL engaged. But it worked for Case.
Not that I'm real critical of the play just that they both move well just differently and there is no way to know how Teddy would look unless he gets time to do it. Case is making it tougher and more expensive all the time.
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