Position change for Treadwell?

[Guest]

@FSUVike said:
So much angst over the #3 WR position for a 10-2 team. Of course, it's the Vikings. We'll find things to worry about after a Super Bowl win because that's how we are hardwired.

Angst?!?  There's no angst.  No angst.  (Well, no more than the usual amount of angst... )

I just want us to find a way for Treadwell to be useful to this team.

It might not be a good idea, and a position change wouldn't happen in-season.  The fact is that he's worked hard, seems like a good person -- but can't get it done.  We've seen what he can do, and it isn't enough to get him on the field.

I'd rather have Wright OR Floyd on the field than him.  And maybe Coley.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@FSUVike said:

(@StickyBun said:

@FSUVike said:
So much angst over the #3 WR position for a 10-2 team. Of course, it's the Vikings. We'll find things to worry about after a Super Bowl win because that's how we are hardwired.

The guy was the #23 selection in round 1 of the Draft.....the angst is it was a wasted pick. Its not even debatable. A very nice mitigation of this is that an UDFA and a 5th rounder are one of the top WR duos in the league. 

But lets call it what it is: a bust. 

Half of all 1st Round picks are busts. Yet we spend as much time talking about this dude as we do the Vikings amazing season. Hell, Tom even felt the need to take a shot at him in his post-game write up.

Floyd, Patterson, Kalil, maybe Waynes. Busts happen, the team is still 10-2. Get over it.

Ha, Tom is just calling it like it is!

He's actually not talked about much at all because the dude is invisible. It just seems the few times the guy is brought up, we have those that feel the need to take up for the guy....why, I have no idea. And with such gusto! He sucks and there is no spin other than fake news to say he doesn't. Like I mentioned, the team can fade this bust because they knocked it out of the park with Thielen and Diggs. 

why do some feel the need to tear him down?  were those dismissing him due to his draft position the same people that were giving up on Rhodes when he wasnt performing at a high level early in his career?  Lots of players take multiple years to develop into the players they become,  especially players on teams without strong veteran leadership at their positions or at least their side of the ball.  Treadwell is now seeing Diggs and Theilen emerge and has credited them as helping him learn to be a pro.

I dont understand how educated fans can be so quick to throw a bust label on a player based on draft position.   Its not like Treadwell isnt getting open or is dropping passes.   He is showing improvement and is making the play when there is one available to be made.

[Guest]

@SmashmouthD said:

@FSUVike said:
So much angst over the #3 WR position for a 10-2 team. Of course, it's the Vikings. We'll find things to worry about after a Super Bowl win because that's how we are hardwired.

Angst?!?  There's no angst.  No angst.  (Well, no more than the usual amount of angst... )

I just want us to find a way for Treadwell to be useful to this team.

It might not be a good idea, and a position change wouldn't happen in-season.  The fact is that he's worked hard, seems like a good person -- but can't get it done.  We've seen what he can do, and it isn't enough to get him on the field.

I'd rather have Wright OR Floyd on the field than him.  And maybe Coley.

we are 10-2, our offense is top 5.  With Wetlanders breakdown of targets, what exactly do you want from him?  Floyd does very little with his snaps.  Same with Wright.  They make 1 catch and have fans calling for more targets. 

 And as far as "seeing what he can do", maybe we haven't.  Some pretty good offensive coaches seem to put him on the field quite a bit.  Sure it is probably only because Rick calls them every day and mentions they need to play treadwell to protect Rick's fragile reputation.  But surely they see something to warrant some of the play time.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

[Guest]

@SFVikingFan said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

[Guest]

@SFVikingFan said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

the team is 10-2 with a top 5 offense...  no offense but I think something is working for a reason,   Treadwell may not be lighting it up in the passing game,  but considering our run game is working very well and we are winning, how can it be said that others are more deserving of his spot that he is?

[Guest]

@greediron said:

@SFVikingFan said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

Wright lines up all over the field, as do Thielen and Diggs.  You can't use Treadwell's shortcomings at WR to just summarily dismiss Wright's production.

And apparently the Vikings are finally catching on as well.  LT's snaps have been cut roughly in half since the bye week.

Pre-bye week:   39.38 snaps/gm
Post-bye week: 20.25 snaps/gm

Pre-bye week:   22.375 pts/week
Post-bye week: 26.5 pts/week

[Guest]

All these arguments tell me is that we are DEEP at WR a position that we were lucky to have one serviceable guy in the past.

[Guest]

@SFVikingFan said:

@greediron said:

@SFVikingFan said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

Wright lines up all over the field, as do Thielen and Diggs.  You can't use Treadwell's shortcomings at WR to just summarily dismiss Wright's production.

And apparently the Vikings are finally catching on as well.  LT's snaps have been cut roughly in half since the bye week.

Pre-bye week:   39.38 snaps/gm
Post-bye week: 20.25 snaps/gm

Pre-bye week:   22.375 pts/week
Post-bye week: 26.5 pts/week

Diggs missed a couple games before the bye week so LT went to the #2 guy,  his snaps were going to be up.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@SFVikingFan said:

@greediron said:

@SFVikingFan said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:

@Tom Moore said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

Wright lines up all over the field, as do Thielen and Diggs.  You can't use Treadwell's shortcomings at WR to just summarily dismiss Wright's production.

And apparently the Vikings are finally catching on as well.  LT's snaps have been cut roughly in half since the bye week.

Pre-bye week:   39.38 snaps/gm
Post-bye week: 20.25 snaps/gm

Pre-bye week:   22.375 pts/week
Post-bye week: 26.5 pts/week

Diggs missed a couple games before the bye week so LT went to the #2 guy,  his snaps were going to be up.

OK taking out the two games that Diggs missed, LT averaged 36 snaps/week before the bye, down to 20.25 after the bye.