Quote: @medaille said:
@ BsuZagVike said:
@ medaille said:
Barr is really good and is instrumental in our scheme. Donald is probably all decade, probably
looking at the HOF with some longevity.
I think you’d have to got Donald everytime, especially if you had the
foresight to see Floyd getting injured.
If we still had Floyd playing at a high level that would shift my
opinion a little.
Of course you take Donald in hindsight, but for the Vikings they had just drafted Floyd and never could have predicted a botched surgery that might end his career so there's no way they would have drafted Donald if they redid it.
I can’t speak for everyone else, but Donald stuck out very
prominently as a game changer predraft.
I thought he looked head and shoulders above Floyd. I looked at it as an upgrade from good to
elite, like getting a John Randle or a Warren Sapp. I was really hoping for Mack or Donald. Barr came out of nowhere for me. I didn’t really know much about him. I thought he was an athletic guy that had all
the tools but was too inexperienced to take high, and I thought he was more of
a 3-4 edge rusher. Taking Donald, at
that time, would have been the better long term play, but worse in the short
term. We would have had a hole at LB
that season and doubled up at DT, but we would have filled that LB position at
some point. In the end it turned out all
right. Barr has played well and we’ve
gotten decent play at that position with guys that had less prestige.
you raise a good point here. if Barr was playing edge in Pittsburgh its possible he would be a perennial all pro, cant say for sure though. To me he seems to shy away from major contact amd seems alot more comfortanle chasing. The first point is why i think he will get paid somewhere else to play edge
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikeking2 said:
both guys are gonna earn top 3-5 money at their position for the rest of their career. both are legit star players.
not sure its even a useful argument unless as usual our fans want to down play how good our own players are and heap praise on any other teams great players. very masochistic of fans. but par for the course
its a fair question considering where both of them are at in their careers and where they were selected.
you say they are comparable... I say not really. at his current level Barr will retire similarly as Chad Greenway, he will be known league wide, he will be adored by Vikings Fans and will be a long time face of this generation of Vikings Defense, Ring of Honor guy, but thats where it will end for him in our 4-3 defense IMO. He doesnt make enough splash plays for him to really get the national recognition.
Donald could very easily be HOF when his days are done. but would they both have had the same career trajectories if the teams were reversed?
That doesn't mean he isn't as good. Loved Jared Allen, but he wouldn't make it in Zimmer's defense. Donald might, but I doubt he would have all the splash plays. Barr is a freak and could take over a game if the defense was designed around him. But often he makes the unselfish play, taking on a blocker so someone else can have a free run at the QB. Brian Robison has done the same for years under Zimmer. Taking on a double team so someone else can get the sack. It is a team game.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikeking2 said:
both guys are gonna earn top 3-5 money at their position for the rest of their career. both are legit star players.
not sure its even a useful argument unless as usual our fans want to down play how good our own players are and heap praise on any other teams great players. very masochistic of fans. but par for the course
its a fair question considering where both of them are at in their careers and where they were selected.
you say they are comparable... I say not really. at his current level Barr will retire similarly as Chad Greenway, he will be known league wide, he will be adored by Vikings Fans and will be a long time face of this generation of Vikings Defense, Ring of Honor guy, but thats where it will end for him in our 4-3 defense IMO. He doesnt make enough splash plays for him to really get the national recognition.
Donald could very easily be HOF when his days are done. but would they both have had the same career trajectories if the teams were reversed?
That doesn't mean he isn't as good. Loved Jared Allen, but he wouldn't make it in Zimmer's defense. Donald might, but I doubt he would have all the splash plays. Barr is a freak and could take over a game if the defense was designed around him. But often he makes the unselfish play, taking on a blocker so someone else can have a free run at the QB. Brian Robison has done the same for years under Zimmer. Taking on a double team so someone else can get the sack. It is a team game.
maybe, i just dont see them as the same level of player. I appreciate Barrs abilities, but I dont see him as the take a game over type of player that Donald is.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I'll play the hindsight game: good grief, yes, we should have taken Aaron Donald - us and all 12 of the teams that passed him in 2014. The presence of Floyd - coming off a modest rookie season - should not have deterred picking him. We run a 4-3, where defensive linemen, not LBs, are the key to our success. DLs also get hurt often, and they often don't work out, regardless of how high they were drafted - which this franchise should know damn well!! IMO the biggest error in drafting and planning player personnel is ASSUMING that some player will "take care of" a certain position and then cross that position off as a need. Vikings have done it often - some good offensive linemen have been passed because someone (like Mike Harris, Phil Loadholt, Matt Kalil...) was assumed to fill the position that an available player would take. Just stupid - if a great player is available, get him, regardless of having some other name penciled in to that spot.
Speaking of Floyd, picking him was very questionable, both in hindsight and at the time. Regardless of whatever he says now say, IMO Spielman was hoping to draft Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins in 2013, but when Floyd slid (a reason to be cautious), he picked him, still got Rhodes, but missed Hopkins and pulled the trade back into round 1 to get Patterson. Still drives me nuts...
He gave up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th for Patterson.
I think his hope was Rhodes and Patterson, doesn't matter now but at least we got Rhodes out of those 6 picks.
Hmmm which one is more likely to injure Rodgers 
Would the Vikings defense be as good if we had Benardrick McKinney playing Barr's role?
I was so hot/cold on Donald pre-draft. I liked what he was as a pass rusher but just couldn't get on-board with the rest of his game. He's clearly rounded himself out and is easily one of the best pass rushers in the game.
Would I regret taking him now, yes and no. At the time Floyd was a former 1st round pick who showed his high ceiling. Another interior pass rusher was needed, but at what expense? Barr fit the mold of how Zimmer wanted to build this defense. He's quietly been having possibly the best year of his career this season without much recognition and continues to grow.
Barr won't stuff a stat sheet like Donald will but he does have a vital role in the Vikings defense today and it would be very very different without him.
Barr is the player who makes the defense. He's a rare athlete who can rush the passer, break up plays in the flats when starting in the A-gap, good in coverage, and at 6'5 with long arms he's able to disrupt passing lanes in the middle of the defense. I agree that his stats aren't what you'd expect them to be and he's been banged up a lot, but he creates disruption and opportunities for other players to capitalize on. He should be a top priority for the Vikings to re-sign.
Donald is a great player and has put up much better stats than Barr, but it would be a much different defense with him instead of Barr. Quick interior pressure would be huge, especially against guys like Rodgers, but we probably wouldn't see the same amount of double and now triple A-gap looks or the overload blitzes that we used heavily last year. A lot would depend if they could find another versatile LB, maybe not one that fills the same role as Barr, but at least one who has similar range and coverage ability, since taking away flats and mid routes over the middle are a big part of our success on D.
So I think where I stand is that Donald is a better, but Barr has a rare combination of traits that Zimmer has used effectively. It is interesting to think about what the D might look like with someone like Benardrick McKinney, Myles Jack, or Khalil Mack in that role. We also found the perfect compliment to Barr in Kendricks, who doesn't seem to get nearly the credit he deserves.
Quote: @Tyr said:
Would the Vikings defense be as good if we had Benardrick McKinney playing Barr's role?
Loved McKinney predraft...Donald, McKinney as the MLB, and Kendrick on the outside...That would be a helluva D...
I wanted Donald and would still prefer him. Love my big uglies.
Barr is playing well again this year... but what about next year? He seems to take plays, games or even seasons off and until he doesn't he will not be a ROH guy for me. He's a good player that makes great plays at times and this year is one of those times. Last year? Not so much... How bad was his play last year, how much has he improved his effort this year? He is one solo tackle away from matching his total from last year... and we are half way thru this season. He stepped up his game big time this season and I'm glad.
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