Quote: @comet52 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Practice? Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?
It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way. And this will be no different. There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record. There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter. I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.
We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up. You may get your wish, fellows!
I think this gets back to the art of projecting upside with Teddy in this system vs Case...Like someone else pointed out, look at what Harbaugh did with Smith vs Kaep. Now that didnt work long-term because of some crazy s hit, but at the time? It looked like genius.
But I'm like Jimmy, I flip/flop on this by the hour...
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Practice? Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?
It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way. And this will be no different. There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record. There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter. I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.
We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up. You may get your wish, fellows!
yep practice... remember Case isnt getting hit or facing a real opponent in practice either... if they see a much better player in Teddy in that environment, knowing how much poise Teddy has shown in the past... they have a pretty good idea of what they will be getting when the lights come on... likely much better than any fans wouldnt you think?
I couldnt make this decision myself, thats why I flip on this subject about every 5 minutes, but I trust that if/when its made it will be the best thing for the team or Zim wouldnt be doing it.
You bring up my one fear with Bridgewater at this point, contact. In practice they'll run D-lineman at you to work on eluding pass rush and maneuvering the pocket. But you always know in the back of your head that nobody is actually going to hit you and nobody is going to be laying on the ground near your feet.
There is still a chance that Teddy completely implodes when having to navigate a pocket with people near his feet. That always will be the biggest mental hurdle for a QB coming off a knee injury. Taking a hit you see isn't so much the issue, but the body's natural reaction to being grabbed around the ankle or getting the knee brushed in the pocket causes some players to do funny things.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ FSUVike said:
His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.
And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.
Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.
So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater? Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.
I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.
i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week. he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets. he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production. he is a great back up QB, but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1.
as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.
the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well? are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would, and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond, lets push all in this year, I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.
It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.
I see your point...but, if I'm going to start Teddy it won't be vs the Rams with a Thanksgiving Day game on the schedule...first time out I'd want to give him a full week to recover with that knee...start him vs Detroit, then he's got a few extra days to recover...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.
It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.
I see your point...but, if I'm going to start Teddy it won't be vs the Rams with a Thanksgiving Day game on the schedule...first time out I'd want to give him a full week to recover with that knee...start him vs Detroit, then he's got a few extra days to recover...
this is kind of where I am at.... let Teddy start working on the Lions game plan this week, he will still need to take back up reps with the rams game plan, but tell Teddy that he is going to get the Turkey day affair and to start prepping accordingly. It might not be ideal, but at this point I think ideal is out the window.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ FSUVike said:
His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.
And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.
Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.
So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater? Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.
I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.
i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week. he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets. he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production. he is a great back up QB, but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1.
as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.
the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well? are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would, and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond, lets push all in this year, I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.
11 TD's/5 INT's, 93% passer rating, 6-2 as a starter. Keenum is playing steady winning football at the QB position. If not for the two INT's late yesterday I don't know that we are having this conversation.
As far as next year and beyond, the team has to go with what is known. I'm hoping we do see Teddy at some point to see what is there moving forward...but he's a huge unknown. We have to see how the season plays out, but right now I would be more inclined to re-sign Keenum to start, continue to develop Sloter as the backup, and draft a QB in the first couple rounds of the draft. It's a good draft at the QB position and the Vikings could benefit.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ FSUVike said:
His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.
And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.
Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.
So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater? Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.
I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.
i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week. he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets. he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production. he is a great back up QB, but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1.
as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.
the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well? are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would, and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond, lets push all in this year, I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.
11 TD's/5 INT's, 93% passer rating, 6-2 as a starter. Keenum is playing steady winning football at the QB position. If not for the two INT's late yesterday I don't know that we are having this conversation. As far as next year and beyond, the team has to go with what is known. I'm hoping we do see Teddy at some point to see what is there moving forward...but he's a huge unknown. We have to see how the season plays out, but right now I would be more inclined to re-sign Keenum to start, continue to develop Sloter as the backup, and draft a QB in the first couple rounds of the draft. It's a good draft at the QB position and the Vikings could benefit.
the results dont change what I see as issues with his game and concerns I have for him when he faces a good defense. He had great results yesterday, but his performance was shaky almost all game, if it werent for shitty coverage those floated passes and starring down his targets would have been much costlier. its the results that keep me from being able to say for sure if/when I would like to see Teddy. The questions are haunting, I cant imagine what Zims stomach must be like.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week. he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets. he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production. he is a great back up QB, but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1.
as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.
the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well? are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would, and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond, lets push all in this year, I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.
11 TD's/5 INT's, 93% passer rating, 6-2 as a starter. Keenum is playing steady winning football at the QB position. If not for the two INT's late yesterday I don't know that we are having this conversation. As far as next year and beyond, the team has to go with what is known. I'm hoping we do see Teddy at some point to see what is there moving forward...but he's a huge unknown. We have to see how the season plays out, but right now I would be more inclined to re-sign Keenum to start, continue to develop Sloter as the backup, and draft a QB in the first couple rounds of the draft. It's a good draft at the QB position and the Vikings could benefit.
And I wasn't having that conversation until then. Well, other than the dropped INT by Norman and the rainbow that Thielen ran under. I saw a few poor decisions but the offense was thriving. Then two horrible passes that almost cost us the game and the offense went into a shell.
Let's not pretend we weren't all cussing when Keenum threw those horrible INTs in the 2nd half and should have thrown another one. Minnesota almost pissed away that lead. But roads wins are tough to come by and the Vikings got a big one.
Only QB's I see who "rarely make mistakes" are Rogers and Brady, maybe Wilson is in that conversation...PRetty rough crowd regarding Case and there are definitely bias lenses. But everyone has their favorite player, nothing wrong with that.
Putting Teddy in with 2 games in 10 days coming-up and arguably the 2 most important games in 2 seasons, doesnt sound right..
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