Quote: @comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
I'd be more worried if they were throwing darts blindly. When Teddy gets into a game it will be because he is the better long-term solution, not because they want to see what happens.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Practice? Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?
It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way. And this will be no different. There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record. There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter. I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.
We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up. You may get your wish, fellows!
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
I'd be more worried if they were throwing darts blindly. When Teddy gets into a game it will be because he is the better long-term solution, not because they want to see what happens.
Well articulated and a great point. The only way he should be out there is from injury (god forbid) or because of this. But damn, the team is 7/2 and I'd be hesitant as hell to do this kind of surgery right now. Odds are extremely high he is going to need to knock rust off. Been a long, long time since Teddy has seen live bullets. Rams are a tough draw.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.
It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.
Yeah I just don't get that. To me at this point it makes all the sense in the world to continue to start Keenum until it doesn't make sense anymore. We are 6-2 with him as a starter and his passer rating is 93%. Huge roll of the dice inserting a guy as a starter who hasn't played a snap of football in a year and a half (against the Rams no less). Balls of steel if Zimmer does this.
The issue is that there really isn't ever going to be an ideal scenario to insert Bridgewater. Sadly, ideal is Case getting a minor ding that forces Teddy to finish a half. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an easy decision to make. But at some point you need to play the risk/reward game because good football teams make the playoffs, great ones get to the Super Bowl.
Its honestly a very similar situation to what Harbaugh had in San Fran with Alex Smith and Kaep. The 49ers were 6-2-1 with Alex Smith and opted to go with Kaep since the upside he brought to the table could be the difference in the playoffs. Kaep finished the regular season 5-2 but led them to the Super Bowl. I guess I just don't get why the organization is so hell bent on force feeding Bridgewater into the starters role when he has never shown the ability (even when healthy) to be anything more than an average starter. I'm not against Teddy and I'm happy to see how he has recovered from injury, but I just don't get the undying loyalty this organization has for a guy that has been a mediocre player. I don't see this team as being better with him starting over Keenum.
You cant just let him hit the FA market without knowing what you got...Problem is there is no perfect time to get him out there - least I dont see it.
Bradford going lame on them really F'ed things-up.
I would also like to see what we have with him, but not at the expense of the momentum this team is playing with right now. The smart play is to maybe try to get him in for a series or two over the next couple weeks or if the game is in hand let him play it out. Handing him the starters role after not playing a single down for a year and a half is lunacy. Like I said, we lose mobility and deep ball accuracy replacing Keenum with Teddy.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.
It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.
Posted this elsewhere as well. I agree that starting the game, running scripted plays, some easy passes to knock of the rust, get the jitters out would be the better scenario.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.
It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.
Yeah I just don't get that. To me at this point it makes all the sense in the world to continue to start Keenum until it doesn't make sense anymore. We are 6-2 with him as a starter and his passer rating is 93%. Huge roll of the dice inserting a guy as a starter who hasn't played a snap of football in a year and a half (against the Rams no less). Balls of steel if Zimmer does this.
The issue is that there really isn't ever going to be an ideal scenario to insert Bridgewater. Sadly, ideal is Case getting a minor ding that forces Teddy to finish a half. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an easy decision to make. But at some point you need to play the risk/reward game because good football teams make the playoffs, great ones get to the Super Bowl.
Its honestly a very similar situation to what Harbaugh had in San Fran with Alex Smith and Kaep. The 49ers were 6-2-1 with Alex Smith and opted to go with Kaep since the upside he brought to the table could be the difference in the playoffs. Kaep finished the regular season 5-2 but led them to the Super Bowl. I guess I just don't get why the organization is so hell bent on force feeding Bridgewater into the starters role when he has never shown the ability (even when healthy) to be anything more than an average starter. I'm not against Teddy and I'm happy to see how he has recovered from injury, but I just don't get the undying loyalty this organization has for a guy that has been a mediocre player. I don't see this team as being better with him starting over Keenum.
You cant just let him hit the FA market without knowing what you got...Problem is there is no perfect time to get him out there - least I dont see it.
Bradford going lame on them really F'ed things-up.
I would also like to see what we have with him, but not at the expense of the momentum this team is playing with right now. The smart play is to maybe try to get him in for a series or two over the next couple weeks or if the game is in hand let him play it out. Handing him the starters role after not playing a single down for a year and a half is lunacy. Like I said, we lose mobility and deep ball accuracy replacing Keenum with Teddy.
We're more aligned on this than not...Will be interesting to see what Zim & Shurmur decide. There is a lot of art and intuition vs science on this one unfortunately.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Practice? Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?
It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way. And this will be no different. There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record. There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter. I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.
We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up. You may get your wish, fellows!
yep practice... remember Case isnt getting hit or facing a real opponent in practice either... if they see a much better player in Teddy in that environment, knowing how much poise Teddy has shown in the past... they have a pretty good idea of what they will be getting when the lights come on... likely much better than any fans wouldnt you think?
I couldnt make this decision myself, thats why I flip on this subject about every 5 minutes, but I trust that if/when its made it will be the best thing for the team or Zim wouldnt be doing it.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ comet52 said:
The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing. Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.
how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice? isnt that just putting the best player on the field? If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him? I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.
Practice? Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?
It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way. And this will be no different. There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record. There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter. I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.
We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up. You may get your wish, fellows!
yep practice... remember Case isnt getting hit or facing a real opponent in practice either... if they see a much better player in Teddy in that environment, knowing how much poise Teddy has shown in the past... they have a pretty good idea of what they will be getting when the lights come on... likely much better than any fans wouldnt you think?
I couldnt make this decision myself, thats why I flip on this subject about every 5 minutes, but I trust that if/when its made it will be the best thing for the team or Zim wouldnt be doing it.
That is why I went on record! Had to finally just say it. It is a tough decision, but so many things in my mind point to Teddy. Geoff pointed it out and I had thought this as well. You don't make the switch on a short week, maybe after Detroit, but if we lose that, we screw up our chance to win the division. And it starts getting very late to make the switch.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.
And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.
Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.
So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater? Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.
I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.
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