Quote: @Tyr said:
It's a tough situation to figure out. Keenum stepped up today and threw for 300-yards and 4 TDs, but then he also threw back to back interceptions and had at least two other interceptable balls. He's doing some really good things, but then he reminds you why there is hesitation surrounding him. This is a game we should have blown wide open, but mistakes both on Keenum and the defense let Washington keep hanging around.
The Rams will be a tough game. Good defense, explosive offense, and Keenum will going against his former team. He's more than earned the right to start that game and as long as he doesn't get hurt or implode, I would probably start him against the Lions and then reevaluate things.
I still think that Teddy is our best long-term option on the roster and I want to see how he handles live snaps and Shurmur's offense, but it doesn't feel like the right time to switch things up.
+1...Not the time, not yet.
Teddy gets in the game when the division is ours, Case gets hurt or stinks it up for multiple straight games. (like less that 150 yards, and multiple picks per game).
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ FSUVike said:
If he'd played a completely clean game I think the argument could have been made that Keenum had a 2 game cushion over Teddy.
In other words he would have had to stink up the joint in two straight outings to get pulled for Bridgewater.
Now I believe it stands at one game. Can't pull him during the game no matter how bad he may play next week. Sends all kinds of wrong messages.
I don't disagree, I think Case has earned another game. But you also have to ask the question, does Bridgewater make the throws Case did early in the game? Hard to say. But its not like Case was throwing receivers open, many of the big plays were a result of his receiver/O-line.
I would say some of those early completions weren't much different than his interceptions. Except the deep pass to Thielen floated deep for him rather than into triple coverage.
Many of his passes weren't great throws. But they worked out.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
A couple things:
- I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play.
- I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.
i dont remember you being much into keenum, but im not here all the time.
as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl? people forget how good teddy has been. his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ supafreak84 said:
A couple things: - I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play. - I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.
i dont remember you being much into keenum, but im not here all the time.
as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl? people forget how good teddy has been. his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.
I thought Keenum was a huge step up from what we have done in past with the backup QB position. He really solidified that with a strong showing in the preseason.
Bridgewater only made the Pro Bowl due to other players not wanting to play (I believe he was a 3rd alternate). Has never thrown more than 14 TD's in a season and Keenum has 11 right now with an almost 93% passer rating. Case is playing at a level above what Bridgewater has ever played at the pro level. IMO people are overestimating Bridgewater as an "upgrade" based on anything more than good feelings because the stats don't support that.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ supafreak84 said:
A couple things: - I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play. - I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.
i dont remember you being much into keenum, but im not here all the time.
as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl? people forget how good teddy has been. his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.
I thought Keenum was a huge step up from what we have done in past with the backup QB position. He really solidified that with a strong showing in the preseason. Bridgewater only made the Pro Bowl due to other players not wanting to play (I believe he was a 3rd alternate). Has never thrown more than 14 TD's in a season and Keenum has 11 right now with an almost 93% passer rating. Case is playing at a level above what Bridgewater has ever played at the pro level. IMO people are overestimating Bridgewater as an "upgrade" based on anything more than good feelings because the stats don't support that.
I think a lot of fans have forgotten how much #5 checked-down, couldn't throw a back-shoulder fade, mediocre arm strength, low accuracy downfield etc. All of that on him? Probably not, not with that OL and what Norv asked of him. But a lot of it was.
I think Case can make some throws now that we rarely saw from a young #5.
The hope for all of us was that those real warts Teddy had were going to start to wane year 3. I thought so and was really looking forward to that season.
I guess we're right back there again, but where there is I'm not sure. Year 2 again? Or the precipice of year 3? We and the Vikings need to know. That much we all probably agree on.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ supafreak84 said:
A couple things: - I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play. - I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.
i dont remember you being much into keenum, but im not here all the time.
as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl? people forget how good teddy has been. his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.
I thought Keenum was a huge step up from what we have done in past with the backup QB position. He really solidified that with a strong showing in the preseason. Bridgewater only made the Pro Bowl due to other players not wanting to play (I believe he was a 3rd alternate). Has never thrown more than 14 TD's in a season and Keenum has 11 right now with an almost 93% passer rating. Case is playing at a level above what Bridgewater has ever played at the pro level. IMO people are overestimating Bridgewater as an "upgrade" based on anything more than good feelings because the stats don't support that.
I think a lot of fans have forgotten how much #5 checked-down, couldn't throw a back-shoulder fade, mediocre arm strength, low accuracy downfield etc. All of that on him? Probably not, not with that OL and what Norv asked of him. But a lot of it was.
I think Case can make some throws now that we rarely saw from a young #5.
The hope for all of us was that those real warts Teddy had were going to start to wane year 3. I thought so and was really looking forward to that season.
I guess we're right back there again, but where there is I'm not sure. Year 2 again? Or the precipice of year 3? We and the Vikings need to know. That much we all probably agree on.
But is now the time to find out if we are in revisionist history? A 5 game winning streak is a stupid time to make a QB switch. We aren't talking Manning, Brady, or Rodgers. This is Bridgewater who had a lot of question marks with hopes of becoming something more. Not anything close to a complete player.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ FSUVike said:
If he'd played a completely clean game I think the argument could have been made that Keenum had a 2 game cushion over Teddy.
In other words he would have had to stink up the joint in two straight outings to get pulled for Bridgewater.
Now I believe it stands at one game. Can't pull him during the game no matter how bad he may play next week. Sends all kinds of wrong messages.
I don't disagree, I think Case has earned another game. But you also have to ask the question, does Bridgewater make the throws Case did early in the game? Hard to say. But its not like Case was throwing receivers open, many of the big plays were a result of his receiver/O-line.
I agree with that. A lot of the improvement on offense is due to improved OL play and skill players like Thielen and Diggs stepping up and making difficult plays. You're not necessarily seeing next level QB traits from Keenum like accuracy/ball placement, looking off coverage, throwing receivers open, and knowing when to give up on a play, but the talent around him is so much better that it gives him a bigger margin for error. That being said, his mobility has been huge. He's been able to evade pressure, roll outside, and then attack teams deep. Those aren't easy things to do and are a big part of why we've given up so few sacks. He's also a bit of a gun slinger and tends to really trust his big weapons to make plays, it's worked more often than not, but I'm sure for a defensive minded coach like Zimmer that can be hard to swallow at time. Kind of a tough situation where Keenum is getting results, but not always in the ideal way. I'm happy we keep finding ways to win, but there are always things that give me some hesitation with him.
Its a different offensive under Shurmur with a good offensive line: does somebody really think Teddy wouldn't flourish also? Of course he would. But Case is going to start against the Rams....and should. He played very well. But those INTs were brutal. There is a leash on Keenum, just don't know the length of it.
If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...
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