The Athletic: KOC doubles down on himself

[comet52]

That's not going to happen this year, zero way. If Kyler gets hurt at some point, JJ comes in and lights it up, he's now got some leverage. Either commit to me or trade me to someone that will. There's all kinds of potential upside for him to put his head down and compete THIS year because odds are he's going to get into a couple games or so. And this all assumes Kyler Murray plays really well, that's first and foremost. If he stinks the first 3 weeks, the fans...being the fickle little bitches they are, will be chanting for McCarthy to come in. 

This is counter to some of your other posts lately where you seem resigned to it being over for JJM in Minnesota.  But now you are back to believing in a miracle. 

I think it would be better for both parties to part ways sooner rather than later.  JJM's best chance in the NFL is a fresh start somewhere, IMHO.  The Vikings org being all-in and now all-out isn't really good for him.  Odds are Murray will do o.k. here and it will be enough to get him a new contract, and after the Darnold deal there is no way they say "Good luck out there Kyler, we're going back to JJM in 2027!"   I mean I guess he and his agent could say we'll just sit by and hope Kyler gets injured or fails.  That's not much of a career plan but, o.k.

I know I've put most of this ridiculous drama onto KOC but it's really as much on the Wilfs in all likelihood.  I'm sure they were pissed watching Darnold win the SB, spending all that money, having another dysfunctional front office, etc.  It seems they've given Brez a cut-costs edict, and given KOC a win a playoff game or else edict.  I remain convinced he leveraged KAM out the door because KAM was the one guy who could say we're rolling with JJM this year and finding out if he can live up to his potential, and KOC's thought-balloon was like, "not gambling my job on that, so as soon as you're down at the Senior Bowl without a clue I'm getting out the knife. "   BTW KAM, if you could pull that knife outta your back Kevin would like you to return it, it has sentimental value now. 

Anyway, on we go to the Kyler Murray era for better or worse.

[StickierBuns]

This is counter to some of your other posts lately where you seem resigned to it being over for JJM in Minnesota.  But now you are back to believing in a miracle. 

Nope. He's not going to be QB1, so he needs some help i.e. a Murray injury or Murray not playing well to gain another view. And he needs to do very well. I've not given up on McCarthy, so if you look deeper into that conversation with Lewis, he also says the team feels like McCarthy could take that leap and his teammates want that. I still think McCarthy is going to succeed, but its looking like not in Minnesota. Which is too bad.

[Zanary]

Eh...

...this article is equal parts arrogance and revisionist noise. For all of JJM's issues last season, there were also plenty of highlights and an obvious series of steps towards real improvement in the later games. For all the babble about "simpifiying" the offense, it certainly worked better against opposing defenses as well as working for our offense. We've all agonized over the pass-happy and long-developing plays that KOC hangs his Purple cap on, and maybe he had a bit of a reckoning as well.

What really concerns me, beyond the idea of giving up on a kid that shows serious promise, is that any truth in the article basically means that KOC is NOT a "QB Whisperer", but simply a tune-up artist, a guy who takes already-veteran QBs and simply fixes what their initial film shows.

It would say that he can't develop an NFL QB, he is just good at bolting the spinning rims onto QBs that got sent to the crusher too early.

I hope that's not the statement he's choosing to make.

[FLVike]

The question I keep asking myself is do I really want to watch KOC's 5th and final season as our head coach?

[StickierBuns]

Eh...

...this article is equal parts arrogance and revisionist noise. For all of JJM's issues last season, there were also plenty of highlights and an obvious series of steps towards real improvement in the later games. For all the babble about "simpifiying" the offense, it certainly worked better against opposing defenses as well as working for our offense. We've all agonized over the pass-happy and long-developing plays that KOC hangs his Purple cap on, and maybe he had a big of a reckoning as well.

What really concerns me, beyond the idea of giving up on a kid that shows serious promise, is that any truth in the article basically means that KOC is NOT a "QB Whisperer", but simply a tune-up artist, a guy who takes already-veteran QBs and simply fixes what their initial film shows.

It would say that he can't develop an NFL QB, he is just good at bolting the spinning rims onto QBs that got sent to the crusher too early.

I hope that's not the statement he's choosing to make.

I think that is an insightful and honest question, and I say that really liking O'Connell.

[purplefaithful]

Wow...

Fans are (of course) all over the place on this.

Again, lets see if he even signs here, I dont think its a slam dunk - and its quiet so far today.

Two opposite truths are potentially happening imo:
1). My gut says this just buys JJM more time to marinate
2). I think JJ needs reps more than time to marinate and hold a clip board.

BUT, I dont tie it to he's done in MN. There is just too much story left to unfold for me to be convicted about that.

[comet52]

What really concerns me, beyond the idea of giving up on a kid that shows serious promise

Outside of emotionally invested Viking fans and loopy Thor Nystrom, you won't find many if any folks who think he is showing serious promise at this point.   That's very much a purple-tinted view of things.

[purplefaithful]

Outside of emotionally invested Viking fans and loopy Thor Nystrom, you won't find many if any folks who think he is showing serious promise at this point.   That's very much a purple-tinted view of things.

THAT is one of 2 big elephants in the room:

1). Do they still believe #9 has a franchise ceiling or not?
2). Will they be interested in Murray long-term if he signs here for 26?

I believe there are Vikings staff who believe in McCarthy, the second one we have to wait on. 

For some reason I keep harkening back to 98/99 and all the swirl back then around Johnson and The Preacher. 

They never should have signed Cunningham after that CG...But who knew it at the time???

[Zanary]

Outside of emotionally invested Viking fans and loopy Thor Nystrom, you won't find many if any folks who think he is showing serious promise at this point.   That's very much a purple-tinted view of things.

I find at least as many who see the same improvements/potential as I see the typical "fans" who seem resigned to hate our starting QB, whomever it may be.

The people straight-up naysaying JJM are choosing to ignore some very good plays and athleticism...so, I think their opinions are best flushed, maybe twice if they bob back up.

The kid is obviously in a "prove it" year, but Kyler's already proven to be a bust for AZ, so betting on him to somehow be the latest reclamation success brings up the obvious question:

which of the "whispered" reclamation QBs, under KOC, have gotten us past the Wild Card round?

Hmmm.

[medaille]

Trading JJM would be incredibly stupid. Even if I were to believe that the Vikings were “done” with him after 10 games, and I were to believe that JJM had his feelings hurt and wants out, the idea of trading him is still stupid. You’re basically buying high and selling low. You’re taking a cheap rookie contract QB, trading them for peanuts and then what’s next? Go get Anthony Richardson to be the backup? Bring in Cousins to be the backup? And not improve them, because we all agreed that backups don’t get any reps for some reason.

Now you have Kyler as a one year rental, and you’ll have to make a decision on who the 2027 QB is and negotiate with them on the price. What’s Kyler going to cost compared to like what the ghost of healthy Daniel Jones got? In an ideal world, Kyler will be healthy for all 17 games, which would make him “healthy” for 2 of the last 5 seasons. In a less idea world, Kyler gets hurt again, and you can’t invest in a guy long term who’s been significantly hurt in 80% of his last 5 seasons. You traded JJM for a 3rd or something, so it’s not like you got a lot of extra draft capital to go get someone in 2027. Also in this hypothetical scenario, JJM turns into year two Drake Maye and makes it to the SB with probably the Steelers or something.