We're going to find out now.....

[purplefaithful]

The Vikings are obviously going to do poorly in that metric given the fact that JJ McCarthy, Dallas Turner and Khyree Jackson were 0 fer 51 in starts in 2024. That didn’t improve much in 2025 for the same reasons. I don’t think I need to tell you the reasons why, but it has nothing to do with whether those were good picks or not. The Vikings haven't had a 2nd rounder in 4 years. And like I said before, it's not like we lost them in a poker game. All of our 2023 2nd rounder’s possible starts (51) would be found in TJ Hockenson. All 34 of our 2024 and 2025 2nd rounder possible starts (34) would be found in Dallas Turner.

Jesu/Cristo...It's really been 4 years?

I cant remember any dirge of picks like that since you know who was traded from Dallas to Remarkable Mike. 

I see where they went, but the full roi is tbd. For sure that becomes more palatable if JJM/Turner end-up blue chip. But that feels like more of a long-shot each year I fan wait too.

---

He wasn't a great drafting GM. But he wasn't as bad as some make it sound. We all call the draft a "crapshoot" for a reason: Because that's exactly what it is. Luck plays a big part. I'm convinced that if you put 16 NFL GMs with a big board in one draft room and 16 monkeys with a big board in another draft room, and then ranked those drafts 5 years later. Monkeys would have fair representation in the top 10. 

Also, his extension happened AFTER all four of his drafts. If his draft history is the biggest problem, that doesn't happen. No, I think something happened, or something was learned or realized, between the extension and now.

^^^

Maybe...I tend to think the truth lies in some of it drafting and something (s) happened...

Some combo of 25 FA, drafting, Darnold/Jones walking, JJM's play this year, Koc/Kam tension, BFlo negotiations and Pettine leaving. 

A mystery wrapped in an enigma!

[Zanary]

What I don't get, here, is why it's seemingly assumed that KOC is going to try and distance himself from JJM. That's the seeming assumption all over Vikings pages, and I don't get it.

Yes, he needs to show a lot of wide-spread improvement in his mechanics, endurance, and more...but seriously, folks, he hardly invented "rough early career starts", and brought a ton more elusiveness, attitude, and charisma we frankly could use.

He's young, the sheer sh*t-show of last season involved him while also landing on him, and all while there was some FO tension with the team. He was straight up awful on a few occasions, but sometimes (the Atlanta game, for fuggsakes) the whole team was basically awful, as they ran right through our defense all game long.

I'm not saying to give him his first "big contract", or even to deny competition this summer...but, as others have done here, I suggest watching his highlights and remembering that he's actually a strong combination of many desirable traits. It'd be the ultimate evil irony if we did a "Jets Darnold" treatment to him, just to watch him succeed Goff or someone similar and kick our asses a few years from now.

I think this IS a chance to learn what the Jets and Panthers didn't from the Darnold years, and a chance to avoid that mistake with JJM.

[medaille]

The Vikings are obviously going to do poorly in that metric given the fact that JJ McCarthy, Dallas Turner and Khyree Jackson were 0 fer 51 in starts in 2024. That didn’t improve much in 2025 for the same reasons. I don’t think I need to tell you the reasons why, but it has nothing to do with whether those were good picks or not. The Vikings haven't had a 2nd rounder in 4 years. And like I said before, it's not like we lost them in a poker game. All of our 2023 2nd rounder’s possible starts (51) would be found in TJ Hockenson. All 34 of our 2024 and 2025 2nd rounder possible starts (34) would be found in Dallas Turner.

I think that's the most right way to think about it

---

What I don't get, here, is why it's seemingly assumed that KOC is going to try and distance himself from JJM. That's the seeming assumption all over Vikings pages, and I don't get it.

Yes, he needs to show a lot of wide-spread improvement in his mechanics, endurance, and more...but seriously, folks, he hardly invented "rough early career starts", and brought a ton more elusiveness, attitude, and charisma we frankly could use.

He's young, the sheer sh*t-show of last season involved him while also landing on him, and all while there was some FO tension with the team. He was straight up awful on a few occasions, but sometimes (the Atlanta game, for fuggsakes) the whole team was basically awful, as they ran right through our defense all game long.

I'm not saying to give him his first "big contract", or even to deny competition this summer...but, as others have done here, I suggest watching his highlights and remembering that he's actually a strong combination of many desirable traits. It'd be the ultimate evil irony if we did a "Jets Darnold" treatment to him, just to watch him succeed Goff or someone similar and kick our asses a few years from now.

I think this IS a chance to learn what the Jets and Panthers didn't from the Darnold years, and a chance to avoid that mistake with JJM.

I think it could go either way.  I think KOC is going to be under a lot of pressure to be a QB Whisperer next year.  I don’t think he’ll be able to survive another season that looks like this past season offensively.  I think a lot of it is going to come down to how much JJM fixes his mechanics before training camp.  If JJM comes in with solid NFL mechanics, I think KOC will probably feel comfortable going forward with him.  If JJM coasts through the offseason and needs to fix his mechanics during training camp, I think he’ll be fighting an uphill battle for the starting spot assuming the Vikings can bring in a guy that has a reasonable shot at starting.

That said, I like JJM for all the reasons you said and I think he has the hustle and drive to move to the next level.  I just don’t know if KOC, Phillips, McCown can provide him with what he needs, but I think there’s also a very realistic probability that JJM like most QBs was going to suck for the first handful of games and we just never got to see him after those suck games due to him being limited by injuries.

[supafreak84]

I think it could go either way.  I think KOC is going to be under a lot of pressure to be a QB Whisperer next year.  I don’t think he’ll be able to survive another season that looks like this past season offensively.

Which is a major issue considering he's now been given almost total authority over personnel and the draft. You think he's not going to do everything in his power to save his own ass, including potentially mortgaging the future or making moves not in the best interest of the franchise long term? From all reports Bryzezinski is more or less a "yes man" In this short term experiment. That's the big concern for me in all this

[Zanary]

I think that's the most right way to think about it

---

I think it could go either way.  I think KOC is going to be under a lot of pressure to be a QB Whisperer next year.  I don’t think he’ll be able to survive another season that looks like this past season offensively.  I think a lot of it is going to come down to how much JJM fixes his mechanics before training camp.  If JJM comes in with solid NFL mechanics, I think KOC will probably feel comfortable going forward with him.  If JJM coasts through the offseason and needs to fix his mechanics during training camp, I think he’ll be fighting an uphill battle for the starting spot assuming the Vikings can bring in a guy that has a reasonable shot at starting.

That said, I like JJM for all the reasons you said and I think he has the hustle and drive to move to the next level.  I just don’t know if KOC, Phillips, McCown can provide him with what he needs, but I think there’s also a very realistic probability that JJM like most QBs was going to suck for the first handful of games and we just never got to see him after those suck games due to him being limited by injuries.

I guess the response could/should be that KOC had in in-prime (if tragically unprotected) Cousins that got us to the playoffs...once...and we lost, which is also what happened with Darnold.

The assumption that a blue chip QB solves all ills has always been a fairy tale, and our current HC has proven it twice in 4 years. Before him, we had several other infamously get to the same mid-level success. This is one reason why there was so much call to develop our own young QB, rather than plug in another retread every few years.

Will we learn? Stay tuned.

[comet52]

The Vikings are obviously going to do poorly in that metric given the fact that JJ McCarthy, Dallas Turner and Khyree Jackson were 0 fer 51 in starts in 2024. That didn’t improve much in 2025 for the same reasons. I don’t think I need to tell you the reasons why, but it has nothing to do with whether those were good picks or not. The Vikings haven't had a 2nd rounder in 4 years. And like I said before, it's not like we lost them in a poker game. All of our 2023 2nd rounder’s possible starts (51) would be found in TJ Hockenson. All 34 of our 2024 and 2025 2nd rounder possible starts (34) would be found in Dallas Turner.

I can't find anyone anywhere who's defending KAM's drafts, other than yourself.   Which is fine, we all have our outlier moments in life.

OTOH there are certainly a lot of people claiming the drafts are why he was let go.  Though if so, extending him right after his last draft only to fire him less than a year later before said extension actually kicks in seems odd.

[comet52]

This is an interesting discussion of KAM and what happened.

[MaroonBells]

I can't find anyone anywhere who's defending KAM's drafts, other than yourself.   Which is fine, we all have our outlier moments in life.

OTOH there are certainly a lot of people claiming the drafts are why he was let go.  Though if so, extending him right after his last draft only to fire him less than a year later before said extension actually kicks in seems odd.

It’s not about defending anything. It’s about providing context. And yes, reminding people that the Wilfs hated Kwesi’s drafts so much that a month after all four of them were completed and evaluated, they give him an extension. I think it should be clear to everyone that while his drafts may have been a contributing factor, Kwesi was fired mostly for other things.

[purplefaithful]

It’s not about defending anything. It’s about providing context. And yes, reminding people that the Wilfs hated Kwesi’s drafts so much that a month after all four of them were completed and evaluated, they give him an extension. I think it should be clear to everyone that while his drafts may have been a contributing factor, Kwesi was fired mostly for other things.

^^^

If that indeed is the case? Then all roads lead back to:

KOC
Pettine 
BFlo
All of the above

Safe to say, it's probably not the cafeteria manager, I wouldn't think?

[MaroonBells]

^^^

If that indeed is the case? Then all roads lead back to:

KOC
Pettine 
BFlo
All of the above

Safe to say, it's probably not the cafeteria manager, I wouldn't think?

Honestly, I think the biggest reason is the most obvious one: the 2025 offseason decisions—mostly those surrounding the QBs. There are rumors about paternity leave and inaccessibility as well, but the thing that is most embarrassing to the Vikings organization right now is about the fact that our 14-win, Pro Bowl QB from 2024 is playing in the Super Bowl for another team. 

I also tend to believe the rumor that KOC said McCarthy wasn't ready, and Kwesi was so consumed with the idea of having a QB on a rookie deal (as were many fans), that he didn't listen. I may be way off on that—Kwesi does not seem like the dictator type—but it's plausible from a roster-construction perspective.