Kwesi's Tumoral

[supafreak84]

In CONTEXT with other NFL teams and the Vikings own draft history, it isn't nearly as bad as you think. Seriously, go here and check out our last 10 drafts and tell me where all these great players are that we drafted before Kwesi came on board. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t.../draft.htm

2025
5 picks, 1 hit 20%
I think we can safely say that Jackson is a hit. He started every game and has looked solid. 

2024
7 picks, 2 hits 28%
Too early on McCarthy and LDR, but I think we can safely say that Turner and Reichard have futures. One could argue that Turner hasn't produced given what we gave up for him. Fair, but that's a different argument. This number could go way up if McCarthy turns out. 

2023
6 picks, 1 hit 17%
Addison
Mekhi Blackmon started 9 games for the Colts this year. Not the scouts fault for moving him. Still, can't be considered a hit. 

2022
10 picks, 1 hit 10%
Ingram. Worst draft since 2016. But Ingram is now a top 10 guard for Houston. Not the scouting team's fault for moving him. 
Jalen Nailor was a solid pick in the 6th, but he's not a starter, so not a hit. 

2021
11 picks, 2 hits. 18%
Darrisaw, Bynum
Pat Jones gets an honorable mention. Not a starter so not a hit, but a solid contributor. Nothing else in this draft. 

2020
15 picks, 3 hits. 20%
Jefferson, Cleveland, Metellus
Cleveland is starting in Jax. Again, can't blame the scouts for moving him. 
Brandel also gets a mention here since he's a valuable contributor. Not a starter though. 
Nothing else in this draft. 

2019
12 picks, 1 hit 8%
Bradbury and 11 pieces of shit. People hated GB and called him a bust, but he gets the hit because he was a full time starter and actually got a 2nd contract. Starting now in New England. 

2018
7 picks, 3 hit 42%
O’Neill, Conklin, Carlson
Good draft. Conklin wasn't a starter for us, but became one with the Jets. Carlson was cut, but again can't blame the scout team for moving him. 

2017
11 picks, 1 hit 9%
Cook...and 10 pieces of crap

2016
8 picks, 0 hits 0%
Worst draft in Vikings history

And if you think this is a slam on Spielman, it's not. Rick was one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL. It's a slam on the actual draft, where getting one good player is the NFL average, two good players is a good draft and three is outstanding.

There's been some statistical comparison posted on this board about the other teams in our division and how overwhelmingly lopsided it was between them and the Vikings in starting players or major contributors drafted in the same time period Kwesi has been running drafts in Minnesota. GM's and scouting departments make their bread AFTER the 1st round, which you know, and to say that's been a struggle for Kwesi would be the understatement of the year. I don't really care that draft picks produce AFTER they've been traded or released because they didn't contribute as Vikings. Ditto on any live bodies signed in UDFA, because if you think the regular draft is a crapshoot, well pulling anything out of UDFA is the crapshoot of all crapshoots. Only 9% of all UDFA make NFL rosters. That's a real game of luck and my argument has always been with guys like Thielen and Redmond is that if you thought they were good you would have drafted them, you just got lucky as statistics prove. We need to be better at drafting players and not just in the first round.

[MaroonBells]

There's been some statistical comparison posted on this board about the other teams in our division and how overwhelmingly lopsided it was between them and the Vikings in starting players or major contributors drafted in the same time period Kwesi has been running drafts in Minnesota. GM's and scouting departments make their bread AFTER the 1st round, which you know, and to say that's been a struggle for Kwesi would be the understatement of the year. I don't really care that draft picks produce AFTER they've been traded or released because they didn't contribute as Vikings. Ditto on any live bodies signed in UDFA, because if you think the regular draft is a crapshoot, well pulling anything out of UDFA is the crapshoot of all crapshoots. Only 9% of all UDFA make NFL rosters. That's a real game of luck and my argument has always been with guys like Thielen and Redmond is that if you thought they were good you would have drafted them, you just got lucky as statistics prove. We need to be better at drafting players and not just in the first round.

The problem with that statistical comparison that went around a few weeks ago was that it wasn’t about “starters.” It was about “starts” out of “possible starts.” The Vikings are obviously going to do poorly in that metric given the fact that JJ McCarthy, Dallas Turner and Khyree Jackson were 0 fer 51 in starts last year. I don’t need to tell you the reasons why. What’s more, all of our 2023 2nd rounder’s possible starts (34) would be found in TJ Hockenson.

At any rate, nobody is arguing that Kwesi is a great drafting GM, only that he’s not been nearly as bad as some have made it sound. 2022 was terrible, every draft since then has been about par or too early to call. Yes, in terms of sustainability, he needs to do a better job in the depth rounds. But it’s been four years since we’ve had a 2nd rounder. He’s covered those losses well by pulling players like Greenard, Gink, Eric Wilson and Jalen Redmond from free agency.

We had one pick in the top 100 last year. This year we’ll have 4. He needs to do well with those picks.

[supafreak84]

The problem with that statistical comparison that went around a few weeks ago was that it wasn’t about “starters.” It was about “starts” out of “possible starts.” The Vikings are obviously going to do poorly in that metric given the fact that JJ McCarthy, Dallas Turner and Khyree Jackson were 0 fer 51 in starts last year. I don’t need to tell you the reasons why. What’s more, all of our 2023 2nd rounder’s possible starts (34) would be found in TJ Hockenson.

At any rate, nobody is arguing that Kwesi is a great drafting GM, only that he’s not been nearly as bad as some have made it sound. 2022 was terrible, every draft since then has been about par or too early to call. Yes, in terms of sustainability, he needs to do a better job in the depth rounds. But it’s been four years since we’ve had a 2nd rounder. He’s covered those losses well by pulling players like Greenard, Gink, Eric Wilson and Jalen Redmond from free agency.

We had one pick in the top 100 last year. This year we’ll have 4. He needs to do well with those picks.

Just based on history, I'd prefer him not being the one making those picks, but I'm sure the mini streak has saved his job so I agree that he needs to hit on all those early picks and produce an entire draft with some impact outside of the 1st round

[MaroonBells]

Just based on history, I'd prefer him not being the one making those picks, but I'm sure the mini streak has saved his job so I agree that he needs to hit on all those early picks and produce an entire draft with some impact outside of the 1st round

I doubt his job was ever in danger. Couple GMs get booted every year, but in almost every instance it's either because of several years with a losing record, some big expensive mistake, or some kind of front office dysfunction (see Mike and Rick). Vikings are 42-25 since Kwesi took over. They have the reigning coach of the year, one of the better team cultures in the NFL, and a pretty good free agency record.

[supafreak84]

I doubt his job was ever in danger. Couple GMs get booted every year, but in almost every instance it's either because of several years with a losing record, some big expensive mistake, or some kind of front office dysfunction (see Mike and Rick). Vikings are 42-25 since Kwesi took over. They have the reigning coach of the year, one of the better team cultures in the NFL, and a pretty good free agency record.

You forgot the most important part....zero postseason wins

[MaroonBells]

You forgot the most important part....zero postseason wins

This is his 4th season. Les Snead won his first postseason game in his 7th season. Howie Roseman won his first postseason game in his 8th season. And neither had a record near as good as Kwesi's after 4 seasons.

[StickierBuns]

This is his 4th season. Les Snead won his first postseason game in his 7th season. Howie Roseman won his first postseason game in his 8th season. And neither had a record near as good as Kwesi's after 4 seasons.

Perspective. And how many QBs has KOC been forced to use because of injury again? 8 or 9? 

So I'm not a massive fan of KAM, but I can also recognize some perspective. Can't move the goalposts of criticism if you're using post game success as a measure when other very obvious good GMs have shown it might take a minute.