Good QB play is what brings the NFL to the stratosphere

[JimmyinSD]

OK, but put yourself in their shoes. Jones DID win a playoff game. And he was coming off a pretty good season too. You either pay market to see your cards—to see if he can continue improving with some better weapons—or you fold. In hindsight they probably should have folded and started over at QB. But hindsight is always 20/20. Football not so much.

I said at the time he was fools gold, I franchise him for 1 year and see if he can replicate the feat, or some sort of deal that would allow us to kick the tires and then run if he floundered.  he was never very impressive,  even in victory it was pretty evident that he wasnt the reason they won.   Teams offering up mega deals to marginal players due to 1 season of success... well thats just piss poor management IMO, right up there with letting a player dictate the terms because you are afraid of whats behind curtain #2.

[purplefaithful]

Not sure yet what kind of QB he'll be, but he's one hell of a kid:

https://twitter.com/vikingzfanpage/statu...7977079953

That was a good find Sticky!!!

I love the kids retriever pup too.

God, I hope he turns out to be good at QB'ing.

[medaille]

Call me skeptical. Contingencies are good to have, but there are 32 teams in the NFL. There might be 20 worthy starting QBs. The other 12 teams, no matter how many backups they have, don't have QBs they can win with. 

Imagine how much it would change things if you had a coach who could turn a bad QB into a good one. That renders all of the above moot. That's hugely valuable. I think that's why we heard so much about teams willing to trade for KOC before he was extended.

While I do agree with you about coaching, there’s literally zero chance that KOC was available for trade.  That was just a rumor released by KOC’s agent to try and increase his value during his contract negotiations.

We’ve talked about it before, by contingencies, I don’t necessarily mean backups, I mostly mean having the next developmental option in house before you desperately need him.  Elite QBs are showcasing their eliteness early in their careers.  Most elite QBs don’t look pedestrian and then blossom in year 4-5.  If they aren’t elite-adjacent by year 2-3, you really should draft the next QB option as soon as they’re available.  That said, I do also believe that the difference from the Dak Prescott level QBs to the Gardner Minshew’s of the world isn’t that large and if you need to bring in a Gardner Minshew to have on the roster to ensure you don’t overpay your Daniel Jones, than by all means have that as a contingency plan.

While I do think KOC is doing well with his QBs, I think you could probably argue that the dropoff from a pre-injury Kirk Cousins to a $10M Sam Darnold is probably not worth the extra cost for most teams.  Cousins isn’t going to carry a bad coach or a bad roster to the playoffs, and a good team probably is better off with a couple more quality players.

[pattersaur]

Jayden Daniels is awesome and had a great season. We'd be lucky to have him.

One nitpick-- As someone who watched him a lot this year I can understand why he did it, since they've had the horseshoe all season with some crazy comebacks, but yesterday Daniels scored a TD to cut the game to I think 12, fairly late in the game. He did a celebration dance that was prettttty excessive given the fact they were 95% about to lose at that point. To me it showed a great player who wasn't quite ready. And Washington's whole team looked that way against Philadephia. Many good things to come in Washington it seems like though. Just saying-- I love the griddy but I'm glad Jefferson has the sense of when to do it, and when not.

[Kentis]

Yep, & now we have Patrick going for the hat trick… 

[MaroonBells]

While I do agree with you about coaching, there’s literally zero chance that KOC was available for trade.  That was just a rumor released by KOC’s agent to try and increase his value during his contract negotiations.

We’ve talked about it before, by contingencies, I don’t necessarily mean backups, I mostly mean having the next developmental option in house before you desperately need him.  Elite QBs are showcasing their eliteness early in their careers.  Most elite QBs don’t look pedestrian and then blossom in year 4-5.  If they aren’t elite-adjacent by year 2-3, you really should draft the next QB option as soon as they’re available.  That said, I do also believe that the difference from the Dak Prescott level QBs to the Gardner Minshew’s of the world isn’t that large and if you need to bring in a Gardner Minshew to have on the roster to ensure you don’t overpay your Daniel Jones, than by all means have that as a contingency plan.

While I do think KOC is doing well with his QBs, I think you could probably argue that the dropoff from a pre-injury Kirk Cousins to a $10M Sam Darnold is probably not worth the extra cost for most teams.  Cousins isn’t going to carry a bad coach or a bad roster to the playoffs, and a good team probably is better off with a couple more quality players.

No KOC was never "available for trade." But there's a big difference between that and teams feeling out the Vikings level of interest in trading him, which is what was reported.

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I said at the time he was fools gold, I franchise him for 1 year and see if he can replicate the feat, or some sort of deal that would allow us to kick the tires and then run if he floundered.  he was never very impressive,  even in victory it was pretty evident that he wasnt the reason they won.   Teams offering up mega deals to marginal players due to 1 season of success... well thats just piss poor management IMO, right up there with letting a player dictate the terms because you are afraid of whats behind curtain #2.

OK, so Jordan Love then. Do you give him market or start over?

[JimmyinSD]

No KOC was never "available for trade." But there's a big difference between that and teams feeling out the Vikings level of interest in trading him, which is what was reported.

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OK, so Jordan Love then. Do you give him market or start over?

Same situation,   I am not sure why you fail to recognize the option to not give market vs starting over.  there are other tools in the tool box,  use that franchise tag if you are unclear, which is where I would have been on him as well.  He certainly never shown enough to receive a top of the market type of deal.  I would have maybe offered a 2 or 3 year deal with some lofty high dollar incentives but if that got kicked back then I would have tagged him and been looking for my plan B,  which they should have been doing anyway based on the limited time they had left to make that decision and how little they had gotten to see him play.

[MaroonBells]

Same situation,   I am not sure why you fail to recognize the option to not give market vs starting over.  there are other tools in the tool box,  use that franchise tag if you are unclear, which is where I would have been on him as well.  He certainly never shown enough to receive a top of the market type of deal.  I would have maybe offered a 2 or 3 year deal with some lofty high dollar incentives but if that got kicked back then I would have tagged him and been looking for my plan B,  which they should have been doing anyway based on the limited time they had left to make that decision and how little they had gotten to see him play.

Like I said, hindsight is 20/20. Love didn't look particularly good the 2nd half of 2024, making his contract extension look like a mistake. But in 2023, the Packers gave Love a 1-year extension, which was a kind of cheaper franchise tag. They clearly wanted to see more since Love hadn't really played much yet. In the second half of that year, Love completed 70% of his passes for over 2,000 yards, 18 touchdowns and just 1 interception while the Packers finished 6-2 and made the playoffs.

How do you think Love's camp would have responded if, again, the Packers placed the franchise tag on him. I mean decisions are not without consequence.

[medaille]

No KOC was never "available for trade." But there's a big difference between that and teams feeling out the Vikings level of interest in trading him, which is what was reported.

Nobody called the Vikings to feel our level of interest in trading him.  It's a ludicrous idea.  It’s as implausible as if someone reported that we called the Chiefs and asked about a Darnold/Mahomes swap.  No one would make that call because it would never happen and you'd be embarrassed just for asking it.

Agents release crazy stories all the time trying to increase their leverage in contract negotiation.  That is what is happening here.

[Canthony]

Nobody called the Vikings to feel our level of interest in trading him.  It's a ludicrous idea.  It’s as implausible as if someone reported that we called the Chiefs and asked about a Darnold/Mahomes swap.  No one would make that call because it would never happen and you'd be embarrassed just for asking it.

Agents release crazy stories all the time trying to increase their leverage in contract negotiation.  That is what is happening here.

In general, I agree with this theory; however, not so sure this time as KOC has proven that he can mold QBs and win with just about anyone. What he did with Darnold was just perfection, more KOC than Darnold, and the league took notice. I am sure teams wanted to see if they could get him seeing as what he does with QBs. 

Every team wants to get the QB position right, and it's the most coveted part of your team. It wouldn't surprise me if teams called on KOC with him having an expiring contract after 2025. Also, with us having little picks in this draft, why not try and bite when you see it a little blood in the water.