US DEBT

[JimmyinSD]

reading today that the US annual debt payment for the first 11 months of the fiscal year was over a trillion dollars..... this is unsustainable and is downright irresponsible as the adult generation to be leaving this shit show to our kids and grandchildren ( assuming I ever have any of the later ).  

I am not sure how we get the message to DC,  but the only realistic solution is a combination of spending cuts,  with corresponding tax increases ( or letting tax breaks expire )  this needs to be across the board,  hitting everyone that lives in the US,   and especially those whose business interests are protected by US military presences around the globe... or just get the US military out of places that dont have direct strategic advantages for domestic protection.

The spending and govt run programs are out of control,  the size of our govt is out of control,  I think Trump is right that we need to give it a major hair cut. right now our federal govt is treating all the govt entities below it like baby chicks in a nest,  there was a time with city, county, and state would tax and spend at an appropriate level to meet the needs of their respective areas,  now we have the feds sucking up a larger and larger % of tax dollars and the local entities are typically scraping by to make ends meet,  and the only hope of improvement is by stretching their necks to the sky and opening their beaks in hopes that the mother bird will puke some tax dollars back to the locals.  The problem with this is there is so much waste,  these programs are built with little to no oversite,  or some much red tape that they are useless,  no common sense,  no middle ground,  they are either un unusable or a complete waste of money.

I dont see a solution coming from either candidate Trump honestly doesnt have the clout in DC that it would take to get the RINOS to fall in line,  and Harris has no incentive or directive to change the status quo.  this is one time at least where I agree with Zanary... this system needs to be imploded,  but its not going to happen from top down.  IMO the only way to put real fear into the current system is to destroy the roots, vote for the challenger ( at least when they are up against candidates that have a shitty track record,  unless the challenger has very clear ties to the current problem )  State races will affect national candidates sooner that an out of right field national candidate for president would,  and its a lot easier and typically cheaper for them to get their message out at the state and local level in order to build a name for themselves.... the trick is to keep them clean and accountable in DC while they build a name that will make them a viable presidential candidate. (getting tougher to even do that at the state level!!!)

Like I mentioned in another thread... under 2 years to our 250th birthday... I am just not seeing a reason to celebrate at this point.

[Zanary]

Given that Trumplestilskin's policies added a whisker under $5 trillion to the US debt BEFORE Covid costs are factored in (I don't blame him for that, just as I don't credit sleepy Joe for gains coming out of it)...

...why assume improvement under his return? His vindictiveness alone this time around makes me think his first year will be, as he's said, focused on revenge and bloody executive orders.

The gop has an embarrassing history with debt. So does the dnc, but the gop NEVER delivers on the "shrink government/taxes" platform for more than a blink.

[JimmyinSD]

Trump isnt running the republican game plan, cant keep saying he is tied to their history, his plans align more with traditional conservative doctrine, but certainly isnt in step with the power brokers from the party, otherwise you wouldnt have all the known old names coming out in supoort of Harris.

Even here in SD, about as red as it gets, the republican party is fractured pretty badly, Noem and other RINOs are losing steam as a vocal and active younger group are challenging for party control. Gonna be fireworks in Pierre next winter, just as we need to see the same in every state, on both sides of the aisle, the old school leadership and their special interests need to be put down.

[Zanary]

Trump isnt running the republican game plan, cant keep saying he is tied to their history,  his plans align more with traditional conservative doctrine, but certainly isnt in step with the power brokers from the party,  otherwise you wouldnt have all the known old names coming out in supoort of Harris. 

Even here in SD,  about as red as it gets,  the republican party is fractured pretty badly,  Noem and other RINOs are losing steam as a vocal and active younger group are challenging for party control.  Gonna be fireworks in Pierre next winter,  just as we need to see the same in every state,  on both sides of the aisle,  the old school leadership and their special interests need to be put down.

I'm hoping...believe it or not...that the gop remembers actual middle America, and also remembers that if they want to have governance at the federal level, they need to utterly give up on both stubborn "this is how we've done it in the Bible Belt" and "this is how we do it in MAGA country"...because, both have very limited lives in the current information age.

I've said before, I used to hold out huge hope for Rubio. If he'd stayed more moderate, he could've been a younger, fresher step forward in the legit persona of a son of Cuban immigrants. He could have shown the horrid "Uncle Tom" BS from the DNC for what it is, he could have been a healthy break from the nasty old hard-right racists/nationalists that still poison the party, and he had the charisma along with the TV chops to debate with more facts than lies/hyperbole.

Essentially, he WAS the male Nikki Haley in many ways...before he started signing on with some of the hardliners.

The party needs to get past the orange phase, dump the MTG/Boeher/Lake shrieking whackos that spend far more time making noise than sense/facts, and maybe try and...wait for it...SET SOME FUGGING EXAMPLES as long as they're going to have typical partisan outrage at anything from the hollywood left.

If you can't walk it, don't talk it. The gop lost that message a long time ago. Lost me and many others at the same time.

[badgervike]

When you look at US debt, you really have to measure it against GDP.  It's much like securing business financing for an expansion.  Debt by itself isn't a bad thing as long as you're getting the corresponding growth to be able to pay down that debt with an increase in revenues.  Obama (and Pelosi) were actually the most mismanaged debt in our lifetime with a lot of spending and no corresponding growth in revenue (tax base).  There was the obvious big Covid jump for Trump as revenues declined and government spending surged but otherwise the debt vs GDP was actually pretty good.  Biden/Harris debt is similar to Obama...lots of spending and not much growth. I do think it would be amusing to have Trump put Musk in charge of a panel to reduce Government spending. That would be a battle royal watching him and a bunch of politicians battle at the feeding trough.

[JimmyinSD]

When you look at US debt, you really have to measure it against GDP.  It's much like securing business financing for an expansion.  Debt by itself isn't a bad thing as long as you're getting the corresponding growth to be able to pay down that debt with an increase in revenues.  Obama (and Pelosi) were actually the most mismanaged debt in our lifetime with a lot of spending and no corresponding growth in revenue (tax base).  There was the obvious big Covid jump for Trump as revenues declined and government spending surged but otherwise the debt vs GDP was actually pretty good.  Biden/Harris debt is similar to Obama...lots of spending and not much growth. I do think it would be amusing to have Trump put Musk in charge of a panel to reduce Government spending. That would be a battle royal watching him and a bunch of politicians battle at the feeding trough.

debt isnt a bad thing, but it needs to be controlled, and our govt has become far to dependent on the idea of deficit spending and not addressing debt reduction. even in good economic times where debt could be paid down, politicians just look at it as money for new pet projects. we need a constitutional amendment to address spending in terms of GDP, and a hard cap put on the % of GDP that our debt can be at. ( with very few exceptions maybe national health crisis or war and thats it, and it has to be approved by a super majority of both houses to break the cap, no more of these bull shit executive orders that require spending)

[badgervike]

debt isnt a bad thing,  but it needs to be controlled,  and our govt has become far to dependent on the idea of deficit spending and not addressing debt reduction.  even in good economic times where debt could be paid down,  politicians just look at it as money for new pet projects.  we need a constitutional amendment to address spending in terms of GDP,  and a hard cap put on the % of GDP that our debt can be at.  ( with very few exceptions maybe national health crisis or war and thats it,  and it has to be approved by a super majority of both houses to break the cap,  no more of these bull shit executive orders that require spending)

I'm with you Jim.  I've always called for a balanced budget amendment (with exceptions as you stated).  I'm a small government guy.  The Republicans have lost their way on this after the Tea Party because it takes political courage.  The Democrats have no interest in reducing/controlling spending...quite the opposite.

[Zanary]

Kinda like...neither are worth trusting with our tax dollars...right?

[badgervike]

Kinda like...neither are worth trusting with our tax dollars...right?

Not a big fan of the alternatives either.  They all lie and unfortunately, the alternatives aren't tacking towards the center...they're heading more and more towards the extremes.

It's easy for you Z to throw out a protest vote and pretend you're morally superior given you know the results WA anyway.  I did the same for years in WI and IL prior. I struggle because that isn't the case in Wisconsin anymore. Jorgenson received 32,000 votes in a State that Biden carried by 20,000.

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debt isnt a bad thing,  but it needs to be controlled,  and our govt has become far to dependent on the idea of deficit spending and not addressing debt reduction.  even in good economic times where debt could be paid down,  politicians just look at it as money for new pet projects.  we need a constitutional amendment to address spending in terms of GDP,  and a hard cap put on the % of GDP that our debt can be at.  ( with very few exceptions maybe national health crisis or war and thats it,  and it has to be approved by a super majority of both houses to break the cap,  no more of these bull shit executive orders that require spending)

With the interest rates where they are, the servicing of that massive US debt is taking up more and more of the tax revenues coming in.  Just paying the interest on the debt is currently running about 75% of US tax revenues from individuals and 30% of all revenues.  We're in massive credit card debt and can only afford to pay the minimum interest payments at present.  That isn't going to fix itself quickly.  And the worst part is our politicians still don't have the intellectual honesty to deal with the looming shortfall in Social Security.  When SS started, the payout was at Age 62 and life expectancy was 63.5 years meaning the program was pegged to pay out an average of 1.5 years per recipient.  Now, depending on your birth year, SS starts at age 66.5 and the live expectancy is 79 years (it went down during Covid but has bounced back).  That's an average payout of 12.5 years per recipient.  Why can't we be honest and start to deal with the problem?  Raise the contribution levels by a small percent, increase the qualification age for the younger generation, etc.

[Zanary]

Not a big fan of the alternatives either.  They all lie and unfortunately, the alternatives aren't tacking towards the center...they're heading more and more towards the extremes.

It's easy for you Z to throw out a protest vote and pretend you're morally superior given you know the results WA anyway.  I did the same for years in WI and IL prior.  I struggle because that isn't the case in Wisconsin anymore.  Jorgenson received 32,000 votes in a State that Biden carried by 20,000.

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With the interest rates where they are, the servicing of that massive US debt is taking up more and more of the tax revenues coming in.  Just paying the interest on the debt is currently running about 75% of US tax revenues from individuals and 30% of all revenues.  We're in massive credit card debt and can only afford to pay the minimum interest payments at present.  That isn't going to fix itself quickly.  And the worst part is our politicians still don't have the intellectual honesty to deal with the looming shortfall in Social Security.  When SS started, the payout was at Age 62 and life expectancy was 63.5 years meaning the program was pegged to pay out an average of 1.5 years per recipient.  Now, depending on your birth year, SS starts at age 66.5 and the live expectancy is 79 years (it went down during Covid but has bounced back).  That's an average payout of 12.5 years per recipient.  Why can't we be honest and start to deal with the problem?  Raise the contribution levels by a small percent, increase the qualification age for the younger generation, etc.

I'm actually pissed that Jorgensen didn't run again. COVID robbed her at least as much as anyone, as she was at least as good as Gary Johnson on issues (better, really) and FAR superior as a believable candidate. Why Gary chose to go all hippy-dumbass, I'll never know; he was smarter than that in NM.

She got about 6 minutes of footage in 2020 due to the virus, the lockdowns, and associated panic...plus, the mutual reach-around the treason clubs have with their pet media outlets AND the Debate Commission. So much conflict of interest, it boggles the mind.

If Haley'd gotten the nod, I'd very likely be able to vote GOP, for the first time in over half of my life. No democrat exists on that radar. As it sits, I'm hoping that enough voters vote 3rd party and/or write in their own candidates that a very clear message is sent...because I'm many elections exhausted with this "vote preferred stack of s**t" sabotage.